Legacy #Upmarmu

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SpeedDuck
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Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by SpeedDuck »

Greetings,

Recently I've been testing how exactly the #upmarmu spell interacts with the Brawling Skill and the Speed Skill. My conclusion is that, since it overrides the attack, it overrides the Speed Skill's speed boost. On the other hand, it stacks with the Brawling Skill and yields higher damage, though the attack delay is not great. I've been playing around with the spell on a local test server and I've put together a version that seems to scale pretty well in terms of attack speed and damage in relation to STR and AGI. Attack delay is around 700-800 with only 1 AGI, but it can get up to 110 if AGI is maxed out at 138 (set on an exponential curve). DPS with an iron potion on Brawling, with max stats, and with assassin gear is about 2600, which is a bit less than what I've achieved with the assassin gear on the Speed Skill. The difference is that my tweak makes the attack have a 100% success rate, though the spell doesn't last very long.

I'd like to suggest the implementation of this modification on the Legacy server (if the TMWA team approves) to help make the unarmed fighter a bit more realistic (it probably isn't better than a tank, though this would make it almost invincible one on one).

Sincerely,
dangerDuck

Attachments
level2-magic-knuckles.txt
My modifications to #upmarmu (you cannot use a shield or weapons with the spell).
(1.98 KiB) Downloaded 74 times
Last edited by SpeedDuck on 23 May 2021, 16:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by jesusalva »

Please send a diff file or preferably make a Pull Request.

But the current plan is to transition player data to TMW Evolved; So while we are not preventing anyone from doing anything on Legacy, said changes may be short lived 🤔

Spoiler:

There's no ETA for this migration, though, specifically speaking I only recently finished the semester so it is still lacking a few stuff; So from my part I'll only actively reject/abstain on changes which cause me extra work on Evolved (so new maps/quests would need to be developed in both, because I'm not going to push on Legacy something which will be removed or which will postpone the migration).

As this is not falling on this group, if you can make the Pull Request I'll review and ship it for you :3

If not I can do it with diff but will take longer.

Thanks and do feel free to add stuff to Legacy; Just keep in mind that I personally am not going to merge them unless they are also added on Evolved.(future reference It's 05:30 excuse me being sleepy)

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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by SpeedDuck »

Ty!

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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by jesusalva »

Changes are now available on Legacy Test Server for public testing, along a Heathin bugfix.

Will go live for all players on late May/early June, depending on how much and how successful testing goes.

(Me not going to test XD)

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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by Ledmitz »

Upmarmu used to be terrible. Glad it has a use now, but there was no need to add any agi increase since agi is important to all classes. A mage should have never needed dex. If there is a dmg bonus or even if strength is required might be okay, but as is, upmarmu is way too fast and powerful and again causes a balance issue both in co-op and pvp with regards to melee fighters.
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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by jesusalva »

Ledmitz wrote: 28 Jan 2022, 22:59 Upmarmu used to be terrible. Glad it has a use now, but there was no need to add any agi increase since agi is important to all classes. A mage should have never needed dex. If there is a dmg bonus or even if strength is required might be okay, but as is, upmarmu is way too fast and powerful and again causes a balance issue both in co-op and pvp with regards to melee fighters.
https://github.com/themanaworld/tmwa-se ... a/pull/605

I'll have devs to vote on 604 and 605 internally... And it will have a round of testing before making it to live.
This should, however, stop the PK'ing on Terranite Cave with one-hit-one-kill.

A bit unfortunate but an assassin should get a skill which causes a lot of damage... ONCE, not multiple times like this.
"Assassinate" or something. Well, whatever. I now am left to wonder if it would be possible to let you dodge magic strikes in Evolved (as in: walking out of the way, not a RNG negation), sounds however like a hassle so probably nah ^^
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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by Hocus Pocus Fidibus »

I like the idea tho, making fighting more player skill based apposed to character skill based. Dodging enemy attack by walking out of effectzone is a nice way to do that. (It would require some indicator tho. Elegant way would that the sprites indikate it in their animation... too much (re)work would be needed tho. Other way is to put colored indicator of effect zone on the ground before attack happens, way more easy to do)
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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by Ledmitz »

jesusalva wrote: 29 Jan 2022, 18:59 https://github.com/themanaworld/tmwa-se ... a/pull/605
"Instead of Agi, it'll now be: (Str + Agi) / 2

Therefore, strength is important.
However, if your int exceed any of these two attributes, it'll be used instead.
If you're a mage with too many points in int, the int will be your bonus."
Well I was trying to say upmarmu doesn't need an agi boost because mages use agi anyway and most all have ~max int already. No need to use int to calculate attack speed. agi already does that.
jesusalva wrote: 29 Jan 2022, 18:59 assassin should get a skill which causes a lot of damage... ONCE, not multiple times like this.
I think an assassin class makes sense. Some would say that's brawler, but brawlers are supposed to be in-close fighters with lots of hooks and uppercuts and crude fighting style, while assassins are very skilled in a certain thing. In short, brawler = slower, tougher and hard hitting, assassin = fast, evasive and a deadly, well placed blow. I know we're just brainstorming here, but I have to say, the names of skills in TMW drives me crazy. Are Mallard's known for their amazing eyesight?, Speed is agi. It's a stat, not a skill, Rage gives more crits, but crits are precise hits, not just hard hits, Astral skill is magic, but there is astral spells which are light path. The only well named skill is poison, but it's useless due to there being no maps with high poison rate mobs.... but there could be.
Hocus Pocus Fidibus wrote: 29 Jan 2022, 20:06 I like the idea tho, making fighting more player skill based apposed to character skill based. Dodging enemy attack by walking out of effectzone is a nice way to do that. (It would require some indicator tho. Elegant way would that the sprites indikate it in their animation... too much (re)work would be needed tho. Other way is to put colored indicator of effect zone on the ground before attack happens, way more easy to do)
I think I see what you mean... upmarmu is indicated by bromenal gloves, i think... but on my patch I had removed that because I didn't like players seeing that particular spell, but if I understand correct..... you mean an indicator of some sort that signifies an imminent attack, so a counter measure must be made. If so, then yes I agree. It would make PVP more skill based, but would require some sort of delay on all skill or spell based attacks and that would mean on all maps. I do think very powerful spells need a cast time, like spawns do.
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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by jesusalva »

I don't know if TMWA allows multiple arguments on max() and min(), otherwise I would sum the highest from three with the lowest from three, forcing you to distribute points or face a penalty.

Brawlers are slow? You haven't watched enough Kungfu movies them, they move like Ninjas XD

Mallard is a false name TMW adopted to replace the original one: Vulture (iirc). It is a TMW thing, not sure where it come from but might find something if you start digging.

About Astral, you cannot understand it without first considering that Dark Path was never originally planned for TMW, while Astral is an original. Astral was the rival for War, defining into support (Astral) and combat (War) magic, with the other classes falling somewhere in-between (Life, Nature and Transmutation). Tier 1 could get from both, Tier 2 had to choose either War or Astral (sparing the Mouboo being the lock-in for Astral), Tier 3 had to... choose between Life and Transmutation I think?

I don't recall the details, but it is on Fate's document. I believe I published it. Somewhere.
But if you put Dark Magic into the equation, it'll stop making sense, because the magic system originally did not meant to have this sixth school.
And that's good argument to redo magic again, too :D
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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by Ledmitz »

jesusalva wrote: 31 Jan 2022, 03:19 Brawlers are slow? You haven't watched enough Kungfu movies them, they move like Ninjas XD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brawler_(boxing)#Slugger
Synonym for brawler is slugger. The others you mention are martial arts... not brawlers. Brawling is more like street fighting. It's hard hits, solid stance and strong constitution. Brawlers are prone to becoming winded, which a counter-puncher relies on, but a few rare brawlers like Tyson were very fast considering how hard they can hit. I never liker that brawling mimicked speed with no weapons. it should have been about harder hits and added vit. Players can add agi on their own.
jesusalva wrote: 31 Jan 2022, 03:19 if you put Dark Magic into the equation, it'll stop making sense, because the magic system originally did not meant to have this sixth school.
And that's good argument to redo magic again, too
Well put. In other words dark was added without any consideration for previous plans (which only penalized dark path). I like the specialist system, but it only works if there are enough spells, which TMW never had. We could infer a necromancer had chosen dark path before. So do we rename astral skill to light or do we continue with the original plans? I prefer the latter if we have enough spells.

As for the GY mobs having been changed (can't find here. maybe another post), it made the crypt the new GY and the GY a lesser place, but really we could have just added more mobs to the crypt, including some special ones like stalkers, The Lost, or even rework real ghosts. The GY, was the major source of exp in the game and the mobs that bot users(warriors) would move to the freezer were the anti-bot mobs. All of this in a place where GMs were kept busy doing botchecks. It didn't hurt my game, but makes no sense from an enforcement point of view because now the GY is just a place to farm exp instead of items, like other hunting grounds are.
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Re: Legacy #Upmarmu

Post by Hocus Pocus Fidibus »

TMW is a hopeless patchwork, would be easier to start from zero than make it a functioning game^^ *grabs popcorn*
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