[Legacy] Merge WW into upstream?

[jesusalva]

Ledmitz has a fork called "WarWorld" which adds a lot of SFX to upstream.

Thus far, only a handpicked selection of few have been merged.

Should we merge the whole stuff? In practice, this would force everyone to use War World and reduce Ledz burden of updating stuff.

Poll runs for 30 days or whatever

[Hocus Pocus Fidibus]

I play without sound anyway and if it makes Leds work more easy i see no reason not to do it.

[WildX]

Always in support of both sound development and more development in general

[HoraK-FDF]

That is what most players want most others don't even know that there is WW. So many good sounds and many enhanced particle effects, some may need a vote witch one to use (original/ww). If you play with bare fists or magic its like a silent movie that always sucked. I think include it is a must its not good if you get an game that is only half since sound effects make a great part of the feel at least it should be noted in server message. Its bad aswell that on an update you must wait until patch is updated.

[Hello=)]

Players who tried it appreciated this effort any day. So it should've been here AGES AGO, without even transforming into fork/custom update host in 1st place. So dammit yes, yes and yes!

[Ledmitz]

So many things happening lately that make me smile. This is very nice to hear. I know I will have to do a license update for it of course, since I have all the attribution info, though most sounds used CC0 sources if any at all. However there are things on WarWorld that aren't so much my work as reworked by me or just added from old archives. I have most all the license info I need though.

[jesusalva]

Ledmitz, go ahead whenever you want I merged everything which could be merged on legacy/clientdata.git already, but there was one MR which had worse merge conflicts which I couldn't resolve myself, so I didn't.

[cuoco]

Lots of players complaining since yesterday about the level-up sound being replaced, can this sound be reverted?

[WildX]

Lots of players complaining since yesterday about the level-up sound being replaced, can this sound be reverted?

In the interest of keeping Legacy "close to original", I would say that any sounds that people miss or preferred before should come back.

[dooom14]

I would like to have the old level up sound back, I don't want to disregard your efforts, but a big part for me is the nostalgic soundtracks and effects that I used to listen long time ago. I propose the new sounds to be an option rather than the actual sounds.

Also, for the new #ingrav effect, don't get me wrong is cool and all but there is something in that mana-pixelated style thunder that is hard to get used to new designs

[HoraK-FDF]

A game needs a complete sound set do be a real game most players use leds patch anyways so keeping it "close to original" means we cant even add new stuff like enhanced sound effects, new maps, new mobs, new particle effects, new items and new graphics because some rare users may come and complain "I want my 2011 or whatever experience back". Rather teach them how to use the local folder so they can include the ancient sounds and whatever.

[WildX]

I wouldn't start removing content that has been loved for years in exchange for new stuff that might or might not be liked. I had not realised how much of the "adding" was actually a "replacing" of sounds. I think this is a bad direction, especially when people are actively complaining about it.

TMW Legacy was never a "real game". It's the sandbox we've all waited forever in. The game has been "incomplete" for as long as I can remember. I think those contributing to it need to do so with the understanding that the main significance of the game is based on the emotional attachement that players have developed for it. Players are usually explicitly against changes that affect existing game zones, features or in this case sounds. This should be respected, especially given the fact that the entire Evolved project is dedicated to building an enhanced version of the game.

[jesusalva]

I wouldn't start removing content that has been loved for years in exchange for new stuff that might or might not be liked. I had not realised how much of the "adding" was actually a "replacing" of sounds. I think this is a bad direction, especially when people are actively complaining about it.

TMW Legacy was never a "real game". It's the sandbox we've all waited forever in. The game has been "incomplete" for as long as I can remember. I think those contributing to it need to do so with the understanding that the main significance of the game is based on the emotional attachement that players have developed for it. Players are usually explicitly against changes that affect existing game zones, features or in this case sounds. This should be respected, especially given the fact that the entire Evolved project is dedicated to building an enhanced version of the game.

Now that I got rid of Travis CI in favor of GitLab CI, I am considering to impose Evolved CI rules for Legacy's client data (if successful, then only server data would require some work for mirroring ─ but do note we would still keep two repositories as e.g. quest ID differs) and replacing the main deploy script with Moubootaur Legends one.

Unlike TMW deploy scripts, Moubootaur Legends always had mods and a mod builder facility. Having "new sounds" vs "old sounds" mods would be easy. There's no ETA on that, I am already with my hands full trying to fix Crossroads & rEvolt deploy scripts, but the more unified deployment sequence becomes, the less work I need to have later, so it makes sense adding to my roadmap while I wait for HoraK to finish mobinfo() and kick() script commands.

(And I already need to maintain Moubootaur Legends mods anyway, so it is not really extra work for me)

[Ledmitz]

I hadn't been back here since my last post. I, for one, am also a lot about nostalgia. I'm glad players spoke up because this post is truly an opinion based one. Even I missed the original level up from time to time. I'd like to know about the quest sounds. Currently, if a player runs into an NPC that has a quest for them (! over their head), there is a ding sound. There is also a lower toned ding to continue an unfinished quest. I have 2 concerns here: If a player chooses to not do a quest, then it will ding every time anyway, and some quests are ongoing forever so there is always a lower pitched ding on them too. I was thinking of removing both due to possible annoyances. If we ever changed the NPC scripts, they could get added back. What do you guys think?

1) Keep or remove the quest start and continue sounds?

With nostalgia in mind, I have 2 music tracks that are on my patch that aren't in the game. The crypt had no music when it was first added (I think), then inherited the graveyard music. I had made a track for the crypt when it was new. Here is today's version of that.
Overwhelmed Underground: https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... ground.ogg
And here is the original submission from 2011: viewtopic.php?p=117062

Before that, I had made alternate music for the moore. The music there used to be the woodland one, but nowadays it too is the same as the graveyard, one of its adjacent maps.I actually made this one first and this is today's version:
Dreary Day: https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... aryDay.ogg
My original submission from 2011 is here: viewtopic.php?t=13886

Chicka also has some old submissions. I use this one outside in Candor, where the game now begins. This contains minor edits to help with looping the track.
In my Heart: https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... 0Heart.ogg
Here is Chicka's very hard to find original forum post from 2010: viewtopic.php?p=161682

Here's another one Chicka made for the Barbarian village (rage skill - 2012) which I quickly added when I found it. This also has very minor edits.
Barbarians: https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... -fixed.ogg
And the original submission: viewtopic.php?p=121899

If you were here for Doomsday, you've heard this one. I use it for Luvia's house. I had nothing to do with this track by Eric Matyas except loop edits, as usual.
Ghoulish Fun: https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... sh_fun.ogg

There's a bunch of ambience stuff too that is a nice break from music on every map. Players have heard some of these before too, but I'll just mention a few I did here quickly...
Sewer Ambience (Under Tulimshar): https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... bience.ogg
Hurnscald: https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... nscald.ogg
Fire (for small maps with a fireplace/pit): https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... nscald.ogg

I should add that many indoor maps are silent on my patch except for some with a fireplace. In fact I usually prefer just ambience, but TMW's music has had many mentions over the years. I think I figured out that signature sound, by the way. The visual audio bar is solid and smooth all the way through on many original tracks. That's a maxed limiter filter in techie talk. No volume dynamics, but it sure is hypnotizing... must ... play ... Mana ..... Woooooorld.
I should also mention that most of the original tracks were tidied a bit, loop better (which used to be a big topic) and I think in one case I even moved the start point. Pretty sure that's Faith (Tonori).

Oh, I almost forgot. If you have music enabled and get warped to botcheck, its nice to get some warning, right? This is a few short police-type sirens that fade and a long silence... repeats every minute...
Botcheck: https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... tcheck.ogg

2) Your thoughts on music/ambience on my patch? Should any be in today's TMW and are the locations okay?

[WildX]

I like the quest sound. The fact that it repeats if you never complete the quest could be annoying, but maybe it could be removed from just minor quests that people might be more likely to not do?

The ambience sounds are great, but I worry that they might blend poorly with the music that goes in the respective maps. As long as they don't overpower the music itself it should be fine. It certainly adds some flavour!

Oh, I almost forgot. If you have music enabled and get warped to botcheck, its nice to get some warning, right? This is a few short police-type sirens that fade and a long silence... repeats every minute...
Botcheck: https://gitlab.com/Ledmitz/tmw-warworld ... tcheck.ogg

I'm afraid this would only serve as a warning bell for botters so they can bot all they want as long as they're in range of hearing the sound. They could literally just go into another room and watch TV until they hear the sirens.