could/should TMW go to GOG too?

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Slimor
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could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by Slimor »

i don't know, why TMW is at Steam now, i don't (want to) use it
but everything that can help to bring more people to TWM should be welcomed.
so my question/suggestion is to bring TMW to GOG too
its by far not as big as Steam and as far as i know there are atm only two similar entries there that would fit with TMW

  1. a total conversion mod for the RPG Gothic 2
    https://www.gog.com/en/game/the_chronic ... a_archolos
  2. would be simulating game OpenTTD
    https://www.gog.com/en/game/openttd

shame on me, i didn't look after the requirements to join/submit a game to GOG
but i'd like to know if there is even interest or need to spread TMW further.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by cuoco »

I like the idea, we should publish TMW everywhere we can.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by WildX »

https://the-mana-world.itch.io/
We currenly use itch.io and there has been zero interest in helping maintain the TMW Legacy page, so I have little hope of being able to maintain a presence on another platform.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by Slimor »

i never seen such a informative overview of the actual state of TMW on one single page, awesome!
it saddens to see it at itch.io an not on the main-page themanaworld.org, such a waste ...
i already follow on itch.io
if the team said in improbable to handle, that's all i was asking for

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by WildX »

Everything that currently exists for the TMW Legacy page is sort of a placeholder I put together. I'd like people's input on the theme and it would be great for people who have itch.io accounts to follow and maybe leave a comment on the page. The web analytics tell me that a lot of people are clicking on TMW for the first time from within itch.io so this really is the best way people can help right now.

This is the thread for discussing and contributing to the page. :)

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by Livio »

Slimor wrote: 27 Oct 2022, 05:48

everything that can help to bring more people to TWM should be welcomed.

cuoco wrote: 27 Oct 2022, 07:04

I like the idea, we should publish TMW everywhere we can.

Not every people deserves to be welcomed: TMW is the only online community when I had to insult players only once and that's remarkable compared to other online communities where there's lack of nice people sometimes.
An abrupt increase of players (if will ever come) may put more workload on GMs.

WildX wrote: 27 Oct 2022, 12:35

https://the-mana-world.itch.io/
We currenly use itch.io and there has been zero interest in helping maintain the TMW Legacy page, so I have little hope of being able to maintain a presence on another platform.

I imagine a community of bored "gamers" avoiding a game with a page barely updated: it may give the idea of something unmaintained or abandoned or boring. But I may be wrong...

WildX wrote: 27 Oct 2022, 13:49

The web analytics tell me that a lot of people are clicking on TMW for the first time from within itch.io so this really is the best way people can help right now.

I'm not the web analist but I tell you that gathering informations without user consent is not a nice thing to do. I don't know if "web analytics" can actually tell a crawler/spider bot from a human. Last but not least you probably don't have any information about where ManaPlus client installations comes from: because repos, stores and whatever allows executable file downloads probably don't share any kind of data with you.
A more consistent data analysis to me is polling the community where they got the ManaPlus client.

As for GOG, the Privacy Badger reported some trackers in it and probably some other script. Not really in line with ethics of free software. However, inviting friends to play TMW by just giving them the official link (themanaworld.org) is surely less effective but it shouldn't bring tracking and bad players (that can make negative advertising by themselves).

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by WildX »

Livio wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 17:56

I'm not the web analist but I tell you that gathering informations without user consent is not a nice thing to do.

I assume if you decide to browse itch.io you also consent to their user agreement. "I" am not collecting anyone's information. This is internal web analytics from the website that you can choose to visit or not.

This level of paranoia must be stressful to constantly live in.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by Livio »

WildX wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 18:03

I assume if you decide to browse itch.io you also consent to their user agreement.

I wonder how many kids are aware of their ToS and Privacy Policies. At least TMW ones seems to be sane enough not to incur in unwanted telemetry or analysis if ignored or misunderstood when accepted.

WildX wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 18:03

This is internal web analytics from the website that you can choose to visit or not.

HTML sadly allows links to be deceptive. The link you click may not be the link you think. Another reason why ads are generally so persistent. Nothing prevents other sites to lead you to itch.io (or whatever) by mistake.

WildX wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 18:03

This level of paranoia must be stressful to constantly live in.

Not much stressful as working, maintaining, and dealing with system security and its users.
I should be paranoid since I made the mistake of letting some players know too much about me. I hope not to have made the mistake of believing in their good faith too. However, I believe that your statement is pointless both for the aforementioned reasons and thread's topic.

WildX wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 18:03

"I" am not collecting anyone's information.

I believe that too. And I'm pretty sure you will not let us down.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by WildX »

What I'd be more concerned about with itch.io is the prominence of what is essentially hentai all over the website. I guess it speaks to the "freedom" of the platform in a way, but not exactly in a great way.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by jesusalva »

I believe this level of telemetry is default in both Apache and Nginx and pretty much any website in the internet.

"How long you spent in a page" however usually is not collected (obviously ─ how exactly will you collect that with a GET/POST request? makes no sense)

The metric label is misleading. It is not "how many users accessed" but rather "how many times was the page displayed/served", although I assume they are actually filtering out yourself.

Of course, assuming I'm right, sending a get request without bothering to stick around for the response would still make the counter go up by 1.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by Livio »

WildX wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 18:48

What I'd be more concerned about with itch.io is the prominence of what is essentially hentai all over the website. I guess it speaks to the "freedom" of the platform in a way, but not exactly in a great way.

I don't browse itch.io but, according to you, they use pretty indecent images. And that attracts people, not in a very sane way ofc. Just tell me how many kinds of ads don't arouse sexual interests in viewers. That's how marketing works. There are tons of sites using images like that in the "clearnet".
Even worse the hentais since they are kind of deceptive and limitless reality depictions that seems to have gained too much track in the last years.
Whatever means freedom it means freedom of choices as well: freedom to decide to get tracked or not as well as freedom to see or not whatever they got on their site because they are free to use their own site as they like. Try telling them that you don't like their images. I'm pretty sure they will not give a damn about it.
I hope that people there don't misunderstand TMW as a low-quality pixel art hentai game or a boring game for lacking hentai images. XD
TMW Wiki images have nude depictions of characters for test purpose. lol

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by jesusalva »

Fun fact: Moubootaur Legends had a nudity mod in the past. Was removed due lack of maintenance/interest/compatibility and some concerns about mod users using profanity in their language and getting banned.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by WildX »

Livio wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 19:08

I don't browse itch.io but, according to you, they use pretty indecent images. And that attracts people, not in a very sane way ofc. Just tell me how many kinds of ads don't arouse sexual interests in viewers. That's how marketing works. There are tons of sites using images like that in the "clearnet".
Even worse the hentais since they are kind of deceptive and limitless reality depictions that seems to have gained too much track in the last years.
Whatever means freedom it means freedom of choices as well: freedom to decide to get tracked or not as well as freedom to see or not whatever they got on their site because they are free to use their own site as they like. Try telling them that you don't like their images. I'm pretty sure they will not give a damn about it.

I only said it because you raised a concern about little children's safety. Do you really find TMW ToS more concerning than hentai for the safety of children?

Livio wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 18:41

I wonder how many kids are aware of their ToS and Privacy Policies.

Livio wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 19:08

Whatever means freedom it means freedom of choices as well: freedom to decide to get tracked or not as well as freedom to see or not whatever they got on their site because they are free to use their own site as they like.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by Livio »

Livio wrote: 03 Nov 2022, 18:41

[...] I wonder how many kids are aware of their ToS and Privacy Policies. At least TMW ones seems to be sane enough not to incur in unwanted telemetry or analysis if ignored or misunderstood when accepted. [...]

WildX wrote: 04 Nov 2022, 11:57

Do you really find TMW ToS more concerning than hentai for the safety of children?

Do you really find my posts stating that? Sorry for the bad English.

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Re: could/should TMW go to GOG too?

Post by WildX »

I'm just confused as to what the concern is. If we agree that people click on anything on the internet at their own risk and that we do have good intentions in the way we write our ToS, what's the problem exactly?

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