RFC: Public Task Board

[Ratstail91]

Do you know those public task boards in RPGs where adventurers can take jobs on behalf of clients? They're usually posted in a tavern and are very cliche, but they're a neat concept.

I was talking with Thorbjørn last night about some of the organizational issues across The Mana World, such as no one wanting to self-host the wiki so the pages could be renamed en masse. I feel the issue mainly stems from the free-form nature of TMW (and possibly Manasource as a whole, though I can't be certain there) as a volunteer project, where everyone contributes to what interests them the most. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it does lead to a certain kind of workflow where aspects of the game can suffer.

So, I'd like to make a proposition: a Public Task Board that lists the major areas of the game that needs work. And I do mean major, as each entry would be a massive undertaking if done alone, but they would need to be done eventually. Some examples would be:

• Client Updates
• Quest Log Migrations
• Wiki Maintenance
• etc.

The task board wouldn't have any concrete elements to it, but would just link to the hubs for each topic, such as this page for the quest log. It would be on the wiki, so anyone could log in and edit it as needed, and it could have an "Adventurers For Hire" section where people could post their handles and areas of interest, if someone wanted to contact an expert on some issue. It would also be useful to show how many people are active in the development, which is good for getting an idea of how things are going.

Before diving in blind, I wanted to get feedback from others about their opinions on this idea, and what areas could be added to it. I don't know if this would work out, as the development has progressed on its own accord for I-don't-know how long, and if this idea fades into obscurity, so be it. But, if it turns out to be a positive for the community, then all the better.

A final note: I don't want this to be dictatorial, and I'm not looking to shake things up - instead, I want to describe the lay of the land as it is, in a way that everyone can agree is accurate. C&C welcome!

[WildX]

I've seen a lot of different methods over the years and in my experience even very efficient methods have been retired over time because of low engagement. The last truly effective way of involving non-developers or potential new developers that aren't familiar with TMW was when people posted their projects on the forums. Granted, forums are not nearly as popular as they used to be, but for the average user they're still more accessible than GitHub, GitLab, Trello and even the wiki which is often visited as a source of in-game information rather than by people interested in contributing. I suppose the next public-facing option I would suggest is using Discord threads, but there's issues with that as many developers are IRC-only and wouldn't be able to participate. Overall I still believe that forum posts would be the best task board/productivity tool even if activity is low. They can be linked elsewhere and allow for discussions across timezones over longer periods compared to instant chats and developer-only bubbles like GitLab (even worse, a private GitLab instance) that will never be visited by the average user who might get into development if they're more exposed to it and perceive it as more accessible to them.

[Ratstail91]

the wiki [] is often visited as a source of in-game information rather than by people interested in contributing

That's a great point, maybe it should be left as such.

Running a task board like this using the forums would need a slightly different approach, such as needing someone to update a central starting point when things change, but it's definitely doable. As a bonus, it's also a long-established part of the overall ecosystem, with integrations across the various websites.

How does this sound to everyone else?

[ThinkSome]

The task board should be an NPC.

[Bjørn]

I think a combination makes sense. A wiki page to keep track of the living task board and forum topics about the tasks where it makes sense, of course linked from the wiki page. I don't think it's a good idea to end up with forum posts that need to be edited, that's what we have a wiki for.

Ratstail91, please feel free to take the initiative!

[Ratstail91]

The task board should be an NPC.

I have no idea how that would work, sorry.

I think a combination makes sense. A wiki page to keep track of the living task board and forum topics about the tasks where it makes sense, of course linked from the wiki page. I don't think it's a good idea to end up with forum posts that need to be edited, that's what we have a wiki for.

Ratstail91, please feel free to take the initiative!

OK! A combination of the two makes sense to me. I'll start on it now, and it can be reworked if we need more stuff.

Edit: It's basic, but its a start: https://wiki.themanaworld.org/wiki/Deve ... Task_Board

[asuratva]

I remember back in the day the team used to use trello. It's defunct now, but the old boards are still around:
https://trello.com/b/ojhvZu1f/content-development
https://trello.com/b/rNnx513z/art-development

[Ratstail91]

I remember back in the day the team used to use trello. It's defunct now, but the old boards are still around:
https://trello.com/b/ojhvZu1f/content-development
https://trello.com/b/rNnx513z/art-development

Last activity was 8 years ago? Is there anything on there that could be added to the task board, or is all that stuff out of date now?

It's cool to see this older stuff, but I'd like the board to be "descriptive, not prescriptive". Effectively, I want to document the game's current state before linking out to other task-related hubs.

[WildX]

Nothing is ever out of date. Recovering content that never made it to the final stage is always an option. In fact, it's a good guarantee to even current developers that even if your stuff doesn't make it right away, it's never really dead until we're all dead. For Trello specifically, there's a lot of stuff that was abandoned because the end of Trello coincides with a big change in the dev team, so you can find a lot of things that have been waiting for 8 years for someone like you

[Ratstail91]

Nothing is ever out of date. Recovering content that never made it to the final stage is always an option. In fact, it's a good guarantee to even current developers that even if your stuff doesn't make it right away, it's never really dead until we're all dead. For Trello specifically, there's a lot of stuff that was abandoned because the end of Trello coincides with a big change in the dev team, so you can find a lot of things that have been waiting for 8 years for someone like you

I appreciate your confidence XD

Maybe "out of date" isn't the right term, how about "shelved"? I use that for my own ideas or partially completed projects - I'll come back to them when the time is right, or there might be something useful in them down the road.

I do think the mana client might go on the task board, as it's lacking a lot of features that ManaVerse has, but does it fall under TMW or a different, more generic umbrella of projects? I'll tag bjorn and ask. I'm also not what else could be put on there - feedback appreciated, as always.