Northern Forest Expansion Map Idea and Geography Questions

[Merlin]

I've started making a map the connects to the farmer north of the woodland village and even thou I follow the discussion for the northern dev. I have some questions regarding the geography of the purposed new areas.

Below is a preview of the map That I'm working on:



I was wondering if the road should go straight or should it fork like it does?
Also will any of the water need to be changed to fit into the purposed ideal northern expansion. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[Crush]

This is the current plan from the wiki:

As you can see there are the following things you have to keep in mind:

1. the lake to the northwest of the woodland village is no longer intended. So it should be filled with normal terrain.
2. There should be a mountain range to the north of the woodland village.
3. The road leading north from woodland village isn't intended anymore either. The pass through the mountain range on map 9 is supposed to be the connection to the north (the map where the link NPC to the snow area is located).

[Merlin]

Thanks for the guidance crush. I see whats going on now. I didn't know what road was the road leading north. I guess i need to scrap this map and work on expanding the area north via the snow land road.

I couldn't get TMX Copy to work and all the map that I created was done from the current map by hand. Could I just end the map with mountain ranges at the top? If I did do this map and follow the new guidelines for removing the current lake to the northwest it wouldn't blend with the current maps and I see no point in expanding that map further.

I'll create a Cliff filled mountain pass map to make the transition from the mountain range surrounding the area to the new forest.
(Didn't I see something about a map in this area already being created? Something by Zippon? or something like that?)

Any idea if Len will have a workable tileset for the new forest tileset available soon?

[Dave]

So does everyone prefer a mountain pass over a cave? I suppose caves wouldn't be a good place for caravans to travel through.

[Crush]

I couldn't get TMX Copy to work

Could you please explain your problems so I can fix them?

I'll create a Cliff filled mountain pass map to make the transition from the mountain range surrounding the area to the new forest.
(Didn't I see something about a map in this area already being created? Something by Zippon? or something like that?)

An overview picture of the map can be found here. I am not sure if Zipon intends to complete the map and publish a tmx for it.

Any idea if Len will have a workable tileset for the new forest tileset available soon?

You should ask Len himself.

[Jaxad0127]

So does everyone prefer a mountain pass over a cave? I suppose caves wouldn't be a good place for caravans to travel through.

If the tunnel was large enough (and secured with beams) it could work. We could also add a small port to the woodland village so it isn't needed. Or an overland route through a small mountain pass.

[Dave]

Traveling to the woodland area by boat should be an option, but it should be a little expensive for newbies / lowbies to be doing frivolously. I suppose it's quite another thing if players are controlling their own boat. That'd probably be unlimited free trips, once you had the boat. I'm not sure if we'll have canoes and other small player vessels.. to me, it seems more likely that boat travel will always be an npc-provided service and because of that, will probably not be free. However, I like the notion of accessing some areas with multiple routes. Taking a boat would be the obvious express route, compared to a walk through the cave / mountain pass area.

Wagons drawn by some sort of stock animal should be part of the traffic on the road in Argaes. I think it'd be really cool if we had a constant flow of npc traffic using the roads with the players. I don't mean to have the roads packed with people.. just that every once in a while, you pass an individual, a small group walking together, or a wagon and its party. Ultimately, I'd like to have wagon-guard jobs available for players to take. ..but all of that could be something to consider when mapping a roadway; any main thoroughfare should probably be wide enough for two wagons to squeeze past one another. Not that we have any wagons to judge this.. but it's still an idea.

[Merlin]

1. the lake to the northwest of the woodland village is no longer intended. So it should be filled with normal terrain.

Okay then how do I make an expansion of the area that will work with the current plan yet can be put with the existing maps? If I make a map that goes with the plan then it will not be correct with the existing maps. Would I have to edit the existing maps to remove this lake? Then I would be able to make a map that fits into the plan. This would require alot of editing of the existing maps and create new area that I can't think of anything to fill it with besides tress and other forest stuff.

2. There should be a mountain range to the north of the woodland village.

How large is this mountain range? Should it be a whole map of a monutain passage or just a the lower part? The map shows a small section of the next map will have this in the lower part then open into the new forest.

3. The road leading north from woodland village isn't intended anymore either. The pass through the mountain range on map 9 is supposed to be the connection to the north (the map where the link NPC to the snow area is located).

I guess I'll have to fool around with TMX Copy some more and try to get the northern part of map 9 copied over to a new file. But what about the water thats to the east of map 9. (The lake thats not supposed to be there.) I guess to make a map that fits I WILL have to change the existing maps to remove this body of water because it's a boundary in the map I want to expand from.

[Crush]

When you change the existing maps so that they are compatible with the new Argaes overview map we would be very grateful.

I would picture the mountain range to be under a half map wide. But the actual width of the mountain range is left to your creative freedom. I don't think that Dabe (who created this overview map) really cares that much about such minor details.

[Merlin]

I can do that....however that creates alot of empty space like I said.

I keep getting this weird error with TMX copy.

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.

I guess thats what I have to do then.

[Dave]

Hm.. shouldn't the improved woodland tileset be part of future woodland maps? If the tilesets need to be altered, why do we need to bother lining up existing and future maps. I'm not trying to discourage people testing out maps, but maps should be focused on after their graphics are completed. I just feel that it's important to point out that any maps created prior to the completion of the game system will be the most likely to undergo serious changes later. So if you want to get the bare landscape down, great.. but try to avoid placing many buildings, since it's hard to say what they'll be used for. Please if you disagree with me on this point, voice your opinion.

I don't think that Dabe really cares that much about such minor details.

That's true.. and if it really needs to be altered later, it can be..

[Crush]

I can do that....however that creates alot of empty space like I said.

I keep getting this weird error with TMX copy.

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.

I guess thats what I have to do then.

Please post the complete command you are using and provide the map files you are copying from and to.

[Merlin]

I've been working on changing the maps to fit the plan. Here is a preview of map 9.



I was wondering if the lake to the west is suppose to be deleted.
I suppose it is but didn't want to change it at first without consulting the forum.

The building is suppose to be an apple orchard with a farmer NPC that
I haven't quite thought of a quest for yet. I was thinking of him complaining that the fluffies were eating his apples and he would give 100 apples for 10 of there white furs, but then it would interfere with another quest idea. Would it sound absurd to have him complain about the evil mushrooms and he wants 20 mushrooms for 100 apples? I figure since it takes time to get the drops it might be worth the 100 apples.

I would appreciate all and any suggestions to improve this map.

Thank You,

[Crush]

The lake to the west is supposed to be deleted, but not before someone wants to creates a map into that direction.

The building is maybe not that well-placed because it is directly on the map border. This doesn't mean that you can't place it there but you have to choose the positions of the map warps wisely.

Regarding the cliff: You should rather take the cliffs in the southern part of the map as an example instead of those in the northern part.

100 apples for 20 mushrooms sounds fair in my opinion.

[Merlin]

The lake to the west is supposed to be deleted, but not before someone wants to creates a map into that direction.

Okay. No Problem. That I can do. The overview tells me that it a another forest map.

The building is maybe not that well-placed because it is directly on the map border. This doesn't mean that you can't place it there but you have to choose the positions of the map warps wisely.

I thought of that too. I figure that since I'm going to create a map in the west I could move the idea over there,

Regarding the cliff: You should rather take the cliffs in the southern part of the map as an example instead of those in the northern part.

I've had difficulties using those cliff tiles. It's hard to get things to go together smoothly. I followed the northern design to make it look like the same part of the formation. I can see what you mean thou, but I found them VERY difficult to recreate. I downloaded zippon's map and I'm gonna look at those cliff formations to get a better working knowledge of the cliff tiles.

100 apples for 20 mushrooms sounds fair in my opinion.

Alright. I thought that was a good equation. Having played for a considerable amount of time (I practically LIVE in TMW!) I think I have gotten quite good at judging the exchange ratio for quests. Maybe this time I can get the script right myself. I have someone who does my content management and he pointed out the errors I made in my last attempts at scripting a NPC.

Thank you for your input Crush. I realize this take your time from more important tasks. When the Content Manager has been appointed I will direct my questions to him, but I still would like your input as well.

Thank You,