[RULES]-RULE#1 : "Do not abuse other players"

[Crush]

In my opinion any cases of abuse should be reported to the game masters using a screenshot and the game masters should ban the offender for a few days. Bad manners are harmful for the atmosphere on the server.

Telling people to ignore people who insult them is not a solution because landing on the ignore list of a few people is not a punishment which discourages an offender.

[Amun]

In my opinion any cases of abuse should be reported to the game masters using a screenshot.

What happens if someone takes a harmless screen shot and edits the text?

[Wombat]

I've seen more than a handful of cases where people are goaded into bad behavior by one of their foes to generate a screenshot. It would help if people just put people with "bad" manners on ignore instead of reporting every little case.

Also, we don't need to "punish" offenders when no one can hear them. Most of the time these events occur to people that hang around town or at a monster spawning area too much. Players can easily handle these problems.

[The Brao]

Players can easily handle these problems.

I guess we are not dealing with a "single-shot" abuse, but with harassment or multi-recidivism (lol). In this case, the ignore system is just inefficient and a GM is needed to solve the problem (especialy when the offender is having an abusive behaviour). Letting the players solve those kind of problem by making their own justice isn't a good idea, concidering the different issues we can see in this Court House (and the lack of maturity of a few players).
In the case of one single insult, i think there's no need to report.

[MasterKenobi]

Moved to Player Talk.

Uber, you know the court house is not a discussion forum.......

MK

[kr0n05931]

Honestly, after you basically troll the "Please wear green topic", you want to bring up not abusing other players?




If we do enforce stricter punishments, I recommend we start with you.

[knulfine]

@Uber_Kalimero
Not long ago I tried to talk about the very same topic. I gave suggestions others were discussing it, too. But it led to exactly nothing, because it seems noone wants to do something. Shame but true... If you wanna read it, here is the link:
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7111

Btw, I say it again. The ignorebutton is not "the great solution".
Ignore is cool for smaller communities but this one is growing. To ignore someone means to let him pass with his bad behaviour and lack of common sense.
In IRC I lately said the same with that rule, delete it, and no problem anymore. But if it is a rule there must be ways to enforce it... And only talking to such people doesn't work.
A word filter is after all a sign... even if you can trick by changing letters or using 1337...
GMs could watch such things invisible. So they'd see what's happening and could ban...

[Cecil_Burrow]

I don't think we want GMs dictating what counts as good manners and what counts as rudeness. I really don't see why ignoring someone doesn't completely solve the problem.

[The Brao]

I really don't see why ignoring someone doesn't completely solve the problem.

If the ignore system could make the offender dumb and invisible, it would be ok. Remember that following someone everywhere and sitting on him without permission are abusive behaviours (but again, that's not clearly explicited in the #1 rule!).

Anyway, censorship is a bad idea. The problem isn't the abusive word in itself, but the idea behind it (and it's easy to circumvent censoring systems).
Autobans => VERY bad idea. Could be extremly annoying for the nice players too.

[knulfine]

[quote="Cecil_Burrow"I really don't see why ignoring someone doesn't completely solve the problem.[/quote]
Because it doesn't change a thing. maybe for the person who ignores but not for others... Why always let those guys pass with their behaviour? Why always let others deal with that... It's a rule people... We could ignore botters, too. Isn't that a great idea? Let's all ignore everyone who breaks any rule! Same rights for everyone. Free world...

[Cecil_Burrow]

But the only problem that needs to be solved is that a particular person finds another person offensive. That problem is completely solved by the former person ignoring the later. You can't assume that everyone is offended by the same thing, or that everyone should behave the same way. Do we really want the GMs to become some sort of morality police - and if so, whose morality will be the official, TMW approved morality?

Botting is different. If lots of bots hung around in areas with lots of monsters, then that would affect -everyone's- gaming experience in a fairly objective way, insofar as people's ability to gain experience by fighting monsters in those areas would be compromised. That would be a very concrete problem.

[Wombat]

But the only problem that needs to be solved is that a particular person finds another person offensive. That problem is completely solved by the former person ignoring the later. You can't assume that everyone is offended by the same thing, or that everyone should behave the same way. Do we really want the GMs to become some sort of morality police - and if so, whose morality will be the official, TMW approved morality?

Botting is different. If lots of bots hung around in areas with lots of monsters, then that would affect -everyone's- gaming experience in a fairly objective way, insofar as people's ability to gain experience by fighting monsters in those areas would be compromised. That would be a very concrete problem.

+1

[knulfine]

But the only problem that needs to be solved is that a particular person finds another person offensive. That problem is completely solved by the former person ignoring the later. You can't assume that everyone is offended by the same thing, or that everyone should behave the same way.

No that's not the only problem. I can only talk for me -> if someone offends me in person. I just walk away or go afk for a few minutes. But what I mean is annoying many people. e.g. in hurnscald. Calling people names, swearing, beg-spamming (don't know a good word for it). In such cases, what's better? 20 players ignoring someone (=let him pass) or one gm banning that player? That's not a gm desicion about moral. That's many people getting offended and the need of someone who can do something (=gm). Btw for me it doesn't matter if you ban someone or warp him to the last corner of snake desert

[Wombat]

So you group ignore them. knulfine, you keep insisting on making a big deal out of people that are extremely easy to ignore. If you can't convince people to put an annoying twerp on ignore, it is their problem and it is too bad you can't win against people that want to hear annoying people. There is no reason to have a GM intervene when our clients have the tools to ostracize people we want to. Take some leadership for yourself. I know I do and those that I have convinced of this strategy have so very little to complain about on this subject because it is so damned easy.

[The Brao]

Take some leadership for yourself.

The problem is that the TMW players community will grow up in the future. With about 110 people on the server, it's already hard to handle. If there are no common rules, then there are individual rules. Individual rules lead to anarchy, and i see no exemples where anarchy is working correctly (but Micronations, ofcourse).
The ignore system is only useful against spammers and minor abuse cases. For the rest a GM is needed.

Botting is different. If lots of bots hung around in areas with lots of monsters, then that would affect -everyone's- gaming experience in a fairly objective way, insofar as people's ability to gain experience by fighting monsters in those areas would be compromised.

I'm sorry but you're judging bots with a purely moral point of view. What you are saying is that botting is cheating, and cheating is unfair. What is fairness but a moral idea? All rules are based on moral, and i don't see any reasons why it could be different on TMW. Keep in mind that moral is different from good-thinking.