[GM Abuse] Delasia

[InspectorShameless]

Try running TMW on an old machine, in the rain. You simply can't play like that.

If you're playing your computer in the rain, I fear it doesn't matter how old it is.

... don't forget to wear isolation rubber boots and some protective gloves & goggles !

~ Don't try this at home, or use Dad's old IBM-AT ... ~

[Leela]

What about an option to disable effects?
Perhaps, when the option is activated it could highlight with a bit of color the area of effect of the spells (a bit like debug mode grid) and show the name of the spell (not the magic word) for you to know what's going on.

There is an option to disable some effects. You can disable particle details but anyway you can see magic.

Now ontopic: I was there, too when Delasia spawned the Jack0s and it was really fun. When the rain started there was only lag and that's it. I was saying stuff like "please no rain" a few times. I know Monique did,too. And several other players, too. This game should be fun for everyone and not only for someone who thinks it's funny to cause lag. Fun is not only to do what you want. Consideration is important. As for me I just left the Jack0 platform like some others who I met in Hurnscald. I think it's ok that Delasia warped you away from there because talking had exactly no effect. How loud would you scream now if she'd banned you? Maybe next time you can be more reasonable. And if not you should count with being warped away (or even banned) again and again.

greetings
Leela

[peavey]

Interesting fact: The rain spell had to be reduced in power many times in order to not lock up the client completely and causing you to time out. In our initial testing my machine, which gets up to well over 800 FPS in TMW client, dropped to 0.00001 FPS when rain was cast by a powerful player and crashing the client.

Even with the fixes, when a powerful player casts rain my FPS drops to 1/5 of normal in eg. hurnscald, leaving me hanging at just about playable rate.

If anyone wants to fix the client, please, patches welcome. So far all we can do it edit the magic.conf on the server and further reduce the rain spell power. But its getting to be so weak its hardly worth it, so a client fix would be most welcome.

It would be a shame to have to remove some spells because of this.

And on topic: Trunks, please follow the guidelines GMs give you during gameplay, if it was me, I would have not warped you, or kicked you, but given you a ban for not following guidelines given by a GM. We can discuss from here to eternity that its the clients fault, its a bug, etc etc, but at the end of the day, you ignored a GM asking you to stop. And at the people being silly, "oh I will make an anti-bow club", please, if you have nothing serious to add to a thread, please refrain from writing.

[Wombat]

Hey peavey, the people that disagree with this ruling are not ridiculous and it is not a fair characterization of them to paint them in such a way. You seem to do this to people you disagree with a lot. If it were me as GM, since we are playing this game, I would've made a note that it caused a problem and I would've wrote a reportback on the incident and announce that future events rain would not be allowed.

[peavey]

Hey wombat, you completely missed the point even though I listed it. I will repeat myself.

1) its not about if you agree or not that rain is making trouble its about,
2) ignoring guidelines from a GM = you receive a fitting punishment

Those were the 2 points made and they hold true no matter if we discuss from here to eternity.

Notice however that the rain problem is widely known and I also said there are 2 possible solutions:

1) drastically reduce rain spell power or remove the spell completely
2) fix the client

And honestly, if all you want to do is twist words instead of working on the solution, then I don't really want to use any more of my time on you.

[Wombat]

GMs do not make up punishments on a whim. This has been repeated so many times. Just because you would like them to doesn't make this so. The GMs are not rule makers.

Disagreeing with someone isn't twisting words. Thinking you are correct about something and insisting other people are incorrect is no way to handle a discussion. Drawing lines in the sand over and over also is no way to handle a discussion. I'd prefer not to talk to you either on this.

[Rakimt]

Okay, I didn't want to say anything, but every time I die, one of those bloody GMs warps me back to a soul-menhir! What the hell GMs?? Can't you do anything right??
[/sarcasm]

No, it's not "abuse" for a GM to warp you out of town for not listening when they speak on behalf of other people any more than it's abuse for them to warp you to a different area if you don't listen when they ask if you're botting. If they did it numerous times and/or for no reason, then it might be considered abuse.

Speaking as a player of The Mana World, you can dislike the GMs as much as you want, or criticise their abilities, but please don't take it out on other players. Keep your complaints about the GMs as complaints about the GMs; start rational discourse; but the lagging issue isn't just trivial nonsense invented by "those horrible evil GMs", and it seriously does affect other people, degrading gameplay. This isn't a massive commercial project backed by a billion-dollar company, it's a community project and sometimes the best solution to a problem will simply be something that requires cooperation from the community.

Another note: people shouldn't need to ask you to stop every time. For one thing, towns are a spawn point, so there are always going to be people who don't get a say in the matter; dying is one thing, but causing someone to lag or crash after they've just died is like kicking them when they're down. For another thing, it can be hard to talk sometimes when it gets especially laggy, and people can be shy or intimidated or not want to speak up for any other reason.

[peavey]

GMs do not make up punishments on a whim. This has been repeated so many times. Just because you would like them to doesn't make this so. The GMs are not rule makers.

Disagreeing with someone isn't twisting words. Thinking you are correct about something and insisting other people are incorrect is no way to handle a discussion. Drawing lines in the sand over and over also is no way to handle a discussion. I'd prefer not to talk to you either on this.

For good measure, we actually DID talk this through on IRC after this and reaching a working agreement. Just goes to show that if you engage on a level playing field, results can be made, even if your point of origin differs wildly.

Anywho, the result of this should be announced later by Wombat when he deems them ready for public consumption, as he is making a guideline draft for all this with input from all camps.

[Amun]

If rain is that disruptive to your game play my suggestion is buy a better computer or upgrade. As long as a spell is made available for use than it should be allowed to be used with out restrictions. It's like saying, "Don't push the big red button." You know it's going to happen.

[peavey]

If rain is that disruptive to your game play my suggestion is buy a better computer or upgrade. As long as a spell is made available for use than it should be allowed to be used with out restrictions. It's like saying, "Don't push the big red button." You know it's going to happen.

That would really limit us a lot if we can't test out stuff on our alpha testing server (the current one you are playing on). However, you might be right and we should disable the rain spell for now.

[Crush]

We are currently thinking about redesigning the rain spell to lower its abuse potential.

[Jumpy]

...oh gosh i just ran my car 250 km/h and killed crashed 4 cars and an autobus in an accident...
the people running in my car asked me to stop but i just wanted to know what speed i could do with my car
oh btw i just send them to the hospital and killed 4

i don't understand!

why the insurance asks me to pay
why the police put me in jail

anyway

i have a gun
what happens if i pull the trigger and try it on my neighbour?
...

Delasia did exactely what had to be done imho

it is not because it is a pre test alpha beta or whatever game in dev that people can do whatever they want and annoy others players, crash their client or provoc lag

+1 Del
+1 peavey

Regards

[Black Don]

I think punishing people for 'causing' lag is a slippery slope. Lag can come from lots of different sources and many many reasons.
If the lag is coming from the server then our server admin will take care of it and if its the code in the server then Dev will take care of it.
The more likely reason is the lag is from the client. This can be from a older slow system (perhapses some form of minimum requirements to run the client might well be in order), or if someone is running other programs on their system along with the client that require a lot of bandwidth.
Lag can also be caused by the kind of connection you have to the Internet. I now that from were I live in Western Canada its close to 16 hops to get to the server based in Poland and any slow connection along that trip will give me lag.
But this does seem to be a problem with the client and how the rain spell is handled by it, so this should be addressed by Dev and which they seem to be looking into it.
So in the end I would say punishing someone for 'causing lag' seems like a bad idea cause if only a couple of people are experiencing lag then it probably not caused by the actions of people playing the game.

[Platyna]

Once again Delasia is the bad guy because SHE did what the majority of the people asked.

You are not a GM to do that majority of people asked, you are to enforce the rules and bring some entertainment the game, by organizing events etc.

Such things like this shows that you don't have skill to do this job, even if you are a good person you lack common sense and therefore underestanding the rules and your role, so honourable move would be to resign from the position.

Regards.

[Delasia]

You are not a GM to do that majority of people asked, you are to enforce the rules and bring some entertainment the game, by organizing events etc.

Deliberately causing lag to people when they have continued to ASK him to stop in my opinion is infact abusive to other players. It is disrespectful and it causes more word wars then are necessary. I did not kick or ban I simply removed the problem by warping him away from the situation. Be aware that you are protecting the very person who you banned (GOKU) for trolling and stupidity. I was providing entertainment for alot of people when boredom had set in.
For reference purposes, this person was later banned by Bjorn himself for acts far worse then lagging people. http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =20&t=8013

Such things like this shows that you don't have skill to do this job, even if you are a good person you lack common sense and therefore underestanding the rules and your role, so honourable move would be to resign from the position.

Well you obviously have no idea what skills I possess nor do you have ANY idea the meaning of common sense (or we would not be having this conversation). Honorable move?? The honorable move would be to allow GMs to do their job in the best mannor possible without halfwits, and wisecracks digging up crap just because they have nothing better to do. If Bjorn requests my resignation he will have it. Else, I would appreciate you speaking of what you know and not what you think you know.