The Mana World Forums

skipy:

WOW the new test gif is almost perfect! I did not know just one frame would make such a difference. The motion blur/trailing really makes up for the lack of frames (like Rotonen said it would). Maybe a slightly more transparent motion blur would look better, but aside from that I think you nailed the front polearm sequence. While helping out on this, I keep switching my favourite action. Right now it seems to be polearms again!

A quick question: is it now just 3 frames? If so, could the other actions be cut to 3 frames too? I think 3 frames per sequence (up, left, etc ... ) should be a goal for all the actions. Maybe after doing the weapon frames you will have a better idea if this is possible (the weapon's motion trailing seems to play a big part in deciding if it will look good).


Sookill:

As skipy said, there is going to be a lot of work redoing all existing items to work with these new actions. There are about 150 pieces of equipment total, of these about 50-60 of these will need to have the extra action frames added in (the rest are hats/hair/misc). Just by redoing the player set with 56 new frames, skipy has locked himself into doing a TON of pixel work (don't do the math, its depressing...) If he can save time by not having to completely redo legs for some of the frames then I think it is a fair trade-off for some much needed variety in player attacks!!!

I think the first frame of the "pull back" part could be removed too.

When you have attack animations, less frames are more, because less frames suggest faster movement.

That is a really nice work skipy! However, I still think that it would be nicer if the polearm is finer. (Would you mind taking some time doing that just to see, I don't ask perfect work but that could help.)

Can we consider the spritesheet (posted in .zip form few posts before by nmaligec) finished? Can I start the blinking transformation into a new topic from now on?

Napalm.

Marvelous, someone finally going for a motion trail for a weapon swing and hence fooling the human brain to believe a lot more than there actually is in a single frame.

Every animation person around not familiar with what and why, please take note here.

Rotonen wrote:Marvelous, someone finally going for a motion trail for a weapon swing and hence fooling the human brain to believe a lot more than there actually is in a single frame.

Every animation person around not familiar with what and why, please take note here.

i plan on using lots of old eye tricks and the " motion trail " will be the back-bone to most of it.....thank you for your kind words ..

@nmaligec"A quick question: is it now just 3 frames?" its 4 still for the weapon and 3 frames for the player (i use the last frame 2 times in a row(f1->f2->f3->f3)...so i used 3 frames like they were 4 frames...i dont know yet but this may also work for all of the new-attacks

@all remember this is just motion testing-
what you see is just a way of showing the idea of how it can move ..when i know this looks goods (with no detail added) i will use the gif's to make a guide to make weapons from....

----skipy {{{gif=same slower}}}}

test of side frames...(i like it).. [edit]add "up" frames test...

-----skipy

He looks great so far.My concern is in the first animation. In the first animation it looks like he is in a boat or shoveling.

meway wrote:He looks great so far.My concern is in the first animation. In the first animation it looks like he is in a boat or shoveling.

this was done in that way as to show a hooking or chop animation as well as a stab .
is this a big concern??

---skipy

some cutting down on frames was talked about here------------------------> http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =8&t=12039

here is a start on that idea.....THIS IS JUST A MOCK-UP DEMO to see if this is a easy to get done or hard and painful....36 cut in this png

-skipy

Why deleting all these frames? Just ask people to help you with the 138 frames to redo about equipment. Reid, skipy, arikel, wombat, me(?) can do this. Starting a new project implies work and you know that. IMO we are getting "lazy", think of the difference!

Why not continue with that and take a bit of time to do these frames? Do you have other important things to do?

When is it planned to be in game?

--Napalm

lol yes, why you delet all of this frame? You got 4 graphics leader that will be happy to help you. *sence a long silence*

Reid: With less frames, artists will be able to make new items more easily. Hopefully this will encourage new artists to contribute more than just a hat or two.

skipy: I noticed that if you look at the walk animation and just split the top and lower halves, it can be condensed into 3 frames. Technically since the equipment is split into top and bottom parts, we should be making these optimizations in the equipment xml and avoid duplicate frames. Also a lot of the attack actions share the same leg positions, this means leg and feet sprite sheets can cut out even more duplicate frames. Notice how hats/hair only have 5 frames instead of the 56 frames that all other equipment has.

We should make an optimized template for hand + chest and leg + feet. I think this will really help A LOT with the equipment update AND will make future equipment design easier/less repetitive. I am up for redoing the xml if you feel like figuring out optimized upper and lower body frames.

Also, does the 2 hand attack need the first frame?

nmaligec wrote:Reid: With less frames, artists will be able to make new items more easily. Hopefully this will encourage new artists to contribute more than just a hat or two.

skipy: I noticed that if you look at the walk animation and just split the top and lower halves, it can be condensed into 3 frames. Technically since the equipment is split into top and bottom parts, we should be making these optimizations in the equipment xml and avoid duplicate frames. Also a lot of the attack actions share the same leg positions, this means leg and feet sprite sheets can cut out even more duplicate frames. Notice how hats/hair only have 5 frames instead of the 56 frames that all other equipment has.

We should make an optimized template for hand + chest and leg + feet. I think this will really help A LOT with the equipment update AND will make future equipment design easier/less repetitive. I am up for redoing the xml if you feel like figuring out optimized upper and lower body frames.

Also, does the 2 hand attack need the first frame?

@optimized template for hand + chest and leg + feet--> i agree ,and i have started them

@Also, does the 2 hand attack need the first frame?yeah..it can be cut (thats 4 less)
..this png shows legs and feet (all of them i think)..this is just a start on the template idea

--------skipy

Ali-G wrote:Why deleting all these frames? Just ask people to help you with the 138 frames to redo about equipment. Reid, skipy, arikel, wombat, me(?) can do this.

Reid wrote:lol yes, why you delet all of this frame? You got 4 graphics leader that will be happy to help you.

Both of you obviously never did a complete equipment set. It is really a shitload of work. Every additional frame will increase the chance that a new contributor wanting to create a new piece of equipment looks at it, is shocked by it, and decides to do something else. Here a quote by ChefChelios who says what a lot of other contributors just thought:

ChefChelios wrote:but do you know how much work it is to pixel clothes for tmw?
you have to pixel 69 frames..for male... and 69 frames for female...

= 138 frames
(and the new playerset 1.5 have much more frame if i remember right)

to pixel hats is my hobby... it is not my full time job xD

Also just because we got some halfway decent staff at the moment doesn't mean that we will have the same number of contributors in a few months. I've been on this project for years, and I stopped counting the number of contributors comming and disappearing without a trace.

What will the players prefer? Smoother animation which is nice to look at for a while or more items which improve gameplay?

Too long, didn't read?

Less frames = more equipment = better gameplay



The number of frames definitely needs to be reduced.

If people want to reduce them more, that is fine. Just to note, what we have now from the expanded set is from reducing the new player-set frames already. This has already been a long consideration that built this player-set. However, if some think it is too large, then coming up with another method to further reduce frames is perfectly reasonable. We are keeping all our existing player set equipment art, only adding new frames to fit the expanded player set. If there are ways to duplicate frames without the additional art effort, all the better.