The Mana World Forums

DarkWater wrote:The goal of the developers has always been to remove ALL leveling areas. They create a game in which no one can level anywhere. That is their goal. This is not going to change at anytime.

Errrr? I don't think any developer is in favor of removing all leveling areas...

What I (and other developers) really want is to make leveling more about questing then grinding...

But this is a MMO, its impossible to completely elimiate grinding.

DarkWater wrote:

Moiraine Damodred wrote: Mages should be vastly overpowerd. Their downfall is them being squishy: as soon as there is more than 1 aggro monster they mage =is= dead.

It seems to work on iRO btw. Mages at are very very squishy so they get the advantage of getting to lvl 70 fast but after they they do require help.

I'll leave it at that TMW is fun. I just want more places to level *O*

There are soo many problems with that statement, I do not know where to start.

First mages are not weak. If you do them right, they can take just as much damage as a normal warrior.

you can not level as a mage, period. You just cant. You can level as an archer or a warrior, then reset to a mage. But you can not level as one.

Oh? You really think so?

Like I said: mages -should- be powerful and -should- be squishy. There is nothing wrong with that: the amount of deaths a mage will have slows the levelling speed significantly.

To me (I bet Kage disagrees ) TMW does not have mages. TMW has healers: Sages. And yes you can not level a sage with the spells we currently have.
Mages are a class that depend on 2 stats: dex for casting speed and int for damage. There is not a class that comes close to this in TMW.

This is getting very(!) offtopic so I will leave it with this reply. If anyone wants to continue this make a new topic. Or somone might split this into a new topic

The goal of the developers has always been to remove ALL leveling areas. They create a game in which no one can level anywhere. That is their goal. This is not going to change at anytime.

This statement clearly shows who is wrong. The whole wiki is prove that this statement is and can not be true.
The goal of the developers is to expand this game.

The problem with the TMW magic system (which I had no business with) is that it was never planned as a real gameplay element. It was always intended more as a gimmick than a serious way of playing. As far as I recall the original creator of the system said something along the lines of "I don't want magicians to be reduced to nukers".

The whole idea "You fight by typing text commands into the chat bar" is ridiculous.

/tangent

Ok, so back to the discussion of etiquette in the GY...I agree that there are times where dragging monsters about is unavoidable, but I'm just saying to TRY not to.

So far as I can tell, based on playing in the GY for a couple of weeks faily regularly, the south is for noobs, as is the right area (well, noobs and solo tanks), left is for more advanced players and large groups. North and the freezer is for skulls and jacko. THESE ARE NOT RULES, JUST OBSERVATIONS. Does anyone else want to chime in on this?

Moiraine Damodred wrote: This statement clearly shows who is wrong. The whole wiki is prove that this statement is and can not be true.
The goal of the developers is to expand this game.

When you put out your first 99. You may understand.

you will completely understand when you do your 4th, 5th, or 6th.

Wait a min. Lets ask dayve.

He has produced more 99's then anyone.

Dayve- Would you say that the developers specifically hunt out and destroy leveling areas? Yes or no?

The skull cave is a perfect example.

It was a good lvling spot, but the developers had to destroy it because it was a good lvling spot.

They do it to stop the ALMIGHTY "BOT".

Thought i would chime in again on this. In regards to the tanget, I have spent probably a million gp playing with my stats trying to find the 'perfect' stats. Mages can level in the yard. In fact its easy. They can survive in the yard, that too is easy. However there are limitations. As i'm setup right now, i'm fairly tanked, as a mage. I can armor up and survive whatever for a while. However, my magic is sorely limited and recovery of mattack is slow. They are called trade offs. I can hit harder and more accurately than any archer or warrior. I am slower than archers and 'squishier' than warriors. If you want to be a mage and level, you have to be willing to play fast and loose with your sulphur and powders. Saying mages are weaker or archers are weaker is silly. The graveyard will kill any and all comers. It is a great place to level provided you are willing to put in the time and effort. If we can agree on basic etiquette, it will be alot less dangerous for everyone.

DarkWater wrote:

Moiraine Damodred wrote: This statement clearly shows who is wrong. The whole wiki is prove that this statement is and can not be true.
The goal of the developers is to expand this game.

When you put out your first 99. You may understand.

you will completely understand when you do your 4th, 5th, or 6th.

Wait a min. Lets ask dayve.

He has produced more 99's then anyone.

Dayve- Would you say that the developers specifically hunt out and destroy leveling areas? Yes or no?

The skull cave is a perfect example.

It was a good lvling spot, but the developers had to destroy it because it was a good lvling spot.

They do it to stop the ALMIGHTY "BOT".

what did they do to stop it

Well to be completely fair, the game Shouldnt be about having 4 or 6 lvl 99 characters, and grinding is a boring method of levelling in general. So, if the
devs reduce some of those areas in favor of new quests or better ways to level through quests, I'm all for that.

mistergrey wrote:Well to be completely fair, the game Shouldnt be about having 4 or 6 lvl 99 characters, and grinding is a boring method of levelling in general. So, if the
devs reduce some of those areas in favor of new quests or better ways to level through quests, I'm all for that.

I totally agree...but thats me... in taw i got from 0% to 30% just by doing a quest =)

*sighs* i dont have the patience to just go to the gy and kill monsters...

I think that the method should be chosen by the player honestly. I rarely do quests, but i grind like a mother. Most quests are a version of grinding anyways, so there is little difference imo. Also, grinding with people in the yard builds teams, which is a great aspect of the whole mmo deal. Its cool to watch a party of like 7 people bust up in there all at once and just start mashing.

and what is one to do once he/she has finished all the quests? (yeah, I know...help noobs, help dev, etc).

I actually finished all the quests, helped a few noobs, and even took at shot at doing some graphics development....the only thing left for me in-game to accomplish is get to level 99....and the only way to do that is GRIND. If there were new quests, i'd be on it, but until then you can find me in the GY...

mistergrey wrote:Well to be completely fair, the game Shouldnt be about having 4 or 6 lvl 99 characters, and grinding is a boring method of levelling in general. So, if the
devs reduce some of those areas in favor of new quests or better ways to level through quests, I'm all for that.

To handle this GY etiqutte stuff.

I understand what you are saying. But here your problem. That ones that care are already doing what you said. The ones that do not, well not. There are very few people in this game that need to be educated.

Etiquette is a form of compromise.
Compromise is a method of resolution, in which both parties agree to an out come to reduce conflict between them.
To reduce conflict, you MUST have something to lose in the conflict.

To you and other it is social capital.

To others there is nothing to lose. They do not care, or in fact create a villain character, in which this behavior is in character. *cough-amun-cough*


The point is. Everyone is doing what they think is good for them, and because there is nothing to lose by doing other wise, they will continue the behavior.

Those that are not moving the monster will not start or stop because you asked nicely.
Those that are moving them will not start or stope because you asked them nicely.
Very few in the middle, and even less read this forum.

Now about the quote.
I would agree. BUT ALL of the quests in this game can get you about 1kk exp. OUT OF THE 402 EXP NEEDED FOR LEVEL 99.

So what you are saying is .002% of the total needed exp should be MORE important then the 99.998%. That they should take make the time needed for the 99.998% longer so they can move the .002% to maybe .003%.

Is that what you are saying?

BOTTOM LINE, once you are done with the 1kk for quests, which like 280k are from setzer. You are left with grinding. Once they find a grinding spot they will destroy it. Which is their right.

Now about this how many 99's someone has.

Let me say this.

If you are lvl 85. You are only 1/4 of the way to 99. Do you understand that. That you have only added about 1/4 the time it would take to get to level 99.

If you are lvl 95, you are only 1/2 the way to 99. You understand that right?


Then maybe you can understand this concept.

If a person has done 1-99. Then he has a really good idea of how to do it. That he has completed 3/4 more time then the lvl 85.

If that person creates 99 after 99. Then you can say he understands the way the game works in ways that you can not even began to imagine.

lvl 85, that is funny. To be honest, dayve could lvl a character to 85 in a week (maybe 2). I am pretty sure. Then take the next 7 weeks getting it to 99.

He understand this game better then anyone else, why? Because he plays it.

Well, good observations on the GY etiquete.

Now, regarding the supposed actions of the developers against the good leveling spots, I think they just took the points where you could stand, lock the target+atack buttons and watch your character from a safe distance. I would be complaining too if they have done what they did to the skull room without a good alternative Leveling place like the graveyard.

What i like in graveyard is that a level 90+ can easily get 20k+/Minute(i dont think it is possible in skull room), but there is no way to just stand there and wait for the monsters(i mean, you still can stay at a distant corner and kill like 1 skeleton per minute) ... if you want good experience you have to hunt them and work with other players as a team, otherwise you are dead.

alastrim wrote: What i like in graveyard is that a level 90+ can easily get 20k+/Minute(i dont think it is possible in skull room), but there is no way to just stand there and wait for the monsters(i mean, you still can stay at a distant corner and kill like 1 skeleton per minute) ... if you want good experience you have to hunt them and work with other players as a team, otherwise you are dead.

wow,and I mean wow.

I am done here. This did me in.

wow.

i dont understand what you mean. He seems to have captured my sentiments on the yard as well. Do oyou mind explaining please