Reflection on GM Commands and Permissions

[Narus]

The only case in which the GMs have failed their responsibility to the players is in not making a rule against multibotting.

We don't make the rules, we enforce them.

Regards.

[mistergrey]

I'd just like to point out that I've never had any issue with people using automation - in that, I agree with Dayve and DW to an extent. I don't particularly enjoy multi-boxers, but I agree that if the rules don't specifically say you can't do it, it's allowed. I only pointed that out in reference to the point I believe DW made, where she said something was wrong because it wasn't what the makers of the game intended. I never intended to incite a flame-war on here, and the only point I was a little vindictive about was the part where you and/or DW turned on a friend in your group to make a point.

I fully agree with o11c's post, that GMs are not chosen to be mindless drones who enforce the rules and that's it. That is their job description, their responsibility, but nobody has officially stated that they are not allowed to have some fun with players in between botchecks and complaints. Since Dayve made the same point again, I'll repeat my response one more time - the other GMs probably avoided doing anything extracurricular to avoid this exact situation: Somebody using it as an excuse to start trouble.

Anyways, keep doing a good job GMs, don't let all the flaming bring you down!

[georgia boy]

I looked at what Dayve posted they looked made up, so i checked. They seem right and so I looked more. The last two uses I found are Doorsman and Delasia, other than Big Crunch and Prsm. Both removed as GMs.


Feel free to check,i do make mistakes

[mistergrey]

So you're comparing BC and Prsm to GMs known for abusing their powers? That's nice... I respect that even more since you have 1 post and apparently made your account today Just to reply to this topic lol.

[georgia boy]

So you're comparing BC and Prsm to GMs known for abusing their powers? That's nice... I respect that even more since you have 1 post and apparently made your account today Just to reply to this topic lol.

yes i did make it today. Dayve is an ass and i was going to take him down. I report what i found and made no judgements, but you sure do

[mistergrey]

Sorry if I came off as abrasive, but with all the GM hating coming from like 2 people lately, it's not hard to believe someone made a sockpuppet account to stir stuff up. The way you stated at the end about Delasia and doorsman pretty much implied "well they were removed as gms, these two should be as well", which I disagree with. So I apologize if I took what you said the wrong way, but people attacking new GMs for having fun that hurts nobody isn't constructive, and just discourages others from wanting the responsibility in future.

[georgia boy]

Sorry if I came off as abrasive, but with all the GM hating coming from like 2 people lately, it's not hard to believe someone made a sockpuppet account to stir stuff up. The way you stated at the end about Delasia and doorsman pretty much implied "well they were removed as gms, these two should be as well", which I disagree with. So I apologize if I took what you said the wrong way, but people attacking new GMs for having fun that hurts nobody isn't constructive, and just discourages others from wanting the responsibility in future.

Thank you for you kind words. You put those words in my mouth, not me. What i do is look at the facts and as i see it you don't care about facts but defend you friends. You make statements that you support with no facts. That was said to show you my thoughts, not to attack you. I have not made up my mind on what i think.

[mistergrey]

Again, sorry for making assumptions once in a while, but I think everyone does. But when have I made direct statements without facts? I'll be precise, not to promote any conflict with you or others, but because I wasn't aware you wanted proof.

1 - I differentiated BC and Prsm, from doorsman and Delasia, because the reasons they were removed as GMs had nothing to do with spawning monsters, or playing a prank on a friend. I believe Delasia was shown to have banned a person or two for personal reasons, without any proper context, and I'm admittedly rusty on what doorsman did.

2 - I made comments about DarkWater and Dayve turning on friends, because Big Crunch is associated with their group, which they claimed to be all good friends, and yet here they both are, arguing over relatively minor commands/incidents, in which they are making BC and Prsm both out to be abusing their power. They have directly said they did not intent for BC or Prsm to quit, but when being targeted over something like this, it could well be the result.

I'm truly sorry for mistaking your intent, we all get a bit worked up sometimes, especially when trying to defend our friends lol. Aside from that, if you have anything else you would like me to backup, just bring it up .

[georgia boy]

I am enjoying this talk or i would not reply so fast.

I am now reading the things Dayve posted to see where he lies or or mislead anyone. Based on some of what you said last, you should. Again i am looking at the facts. The worse i can say is that it isnt clear. From what i read it wasn't a minor thing and there were to be rule changes to make it clear. Wombat posted about it and i will study that next.

Question for you, not a troll. What if they did do something wrong without knowing?

[mistergrey]

Depends what this "wrong" use of power was. As far as I know, they have never limited GMs to only using commands for their responsibilities, or spawn parties and things of that nature would be unheard of. Yes, there should be clear rules so that people know whether something is an abuse of power or not. Though, in the defense of the GHP, people were complaining of actual abuse in the past. I really don't see how the issue that sparked this, the revive command being used in Candor, was severe enough to result in the onslaught of topics about unfair GMs. At best Prsm tried to revive people before realizing it was pointless with the lag, at worst he made a minor error. In that case, while the rules should be clarified, I think the responses have been rather extreme.

Not to bring this up again, but many botters and/or multi-boxers have gotten away with it due to the rules about botting being vague and having loopholes. I think that if people who take advantage of the game's rules can benefit from them, the people stuck with the responsibility should be allowed to have some leeway there as well, at least until a solid set of rules about GM commands is decided.

I'm pretty sure if the rules change to forbid any use of the commands in question, the GMs won't break the rules. The downside, of course, is that taken to extremes this means GMs will no longer be able to use their commands for public benefit, and I'm pretty certain nobody will really want to be a GM when so confined. It's bad enough that everything you do gets critiqued on the forums, if there's no fun, or good side, to the position, why would anybody take it? I really hope the new guidelines allow for these commands to be used, when it doesn't affect gameplay, and isn't used for abusive purposes. It allows GMs to add an element of fun, and it would be a shame to see that stifled in my opinion .

[georgia boy]

2 - I made comments about DarkWater and Dayve turning on friends, because Big Crunch is associated with their group, which they claimed to be all good friends, and yet here they both are, arguing over relatively minor commands/incidents, in which they are making BC and Prsm both out to be abusing their power. They have directly said they did not intent for BC or Prsm to quit, but when being targeted over something like this, it could well be the result.

Okay, more facts, but not as clear. I have seen but one complain against anyone in these post, or did i miss one? I saw one about Prsm, that he revived DarkWind and only DarkWind out of 5 dead on the ground. The GM log back this up. Darkwind is a long time friend of his i am told. I think he admitted to doing it. That has look of abuse of power.

This is not fact but my thought. Dayve and Dark Water, as i read it, have not called for anyones head, nor did they say Big Crunch had done the same as Prsm. I see them saying that these two were not give the leadership needed to avoid past mistakes.

[georgia boy]

I really don't see how the issue that sparked this, the revive command being used in Candor, was severe enough to result in the onslaught of topics about unfair GMs.

I will agree to disagree here as i think any wrong should be punished. the amount should very.

At best Prsm tried to revive people before realizing it was pointless with the lag, at worst he made a minor error. In that case, while the rules should be clarified, I think the responses have been rather extreme.

Not people 1 friend out of 5 people, Darkwind and only her(him?).

Not to bring this up again,

off topic and wasted

... GMs will no longer be able to use their commands for public benefit, and I'm pretty certain nobody will really want to be a GM when so confined.

How is revive to the public benefit?

I really hope the new guidelines allow for these commands to be used, when it doesn't affect gameplay, and isn't used for abusive purposes. It allows GMs to add an element of fun, and it would be a shame to see that stifled in my opinion .

You make me sad at this. The changes are posted to read. You wont bother?

[mistergrey]

Okay, so you're saying anything you disagree with is wrong then? Because it seems to me you're just making light of anything I say. I don't mind this, but if you were enjoying the discussion, then discuss, don't just discount whatever you feel like. Otherwise, you may as well just be trolling.

Tell me, how is the revival a "wrong"? His explanation was that he revived one person, they died immediately, and then he gave up. Doesn't that answer your "why 1 out of 5" query?

I've made you sad, by saying that GMs should be allowed to have some fun to go with the awful experience of being roasted on here all day? I'm very sorry for that. Where are these posted changes? I haven't seen them anywhere yet.

Also, revival isn't to public benefit per se, but then arguably neither is spawning monsters when some will surely complain about that too. It has been done to me, in town where it had no impact on mine or anyone else's gameplay, as a joke. Just because something is not necessary doesn't make it abuse.

[georgia boy]

Tell me, how is the revival a "wrong"? His explanation was that he revived one person, they died immediately, and then he gave up. Doesn't that answer your "why 1 out of 5" query?

Thanks, i would be happy to. He gave one a chance and the died as you say. What about the other 4, did they get fair and equal treatment? Don't they have as much right to get the same as his friend? When he has asked why he gave no answer. (i am using the complaint, i was not there)

I've made you sad, by saying that GMs should be allowed to have some fun to go with the awful experience of being roasted on here all day? I'm very sorry for that. Where are these posted changes? I haven't seen them anywhere yet.

y
Wombat posted them as did Dayve. URL will be below. No, i was sad that it was public and you hadn't found it. Some of the things we talk of are in there. It also shows the what the GHP planned to do.
http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/ ... Guidelines
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 12&t=12801

Also, revival isn't to public benefit per se, but then arguably neither is spawning monsters when some will surely complain about that too.

Here is the one big difference i see with this. Spawning monsters gives anyone on the map a chance to have it. Revive helps only the one the GM want to help. There is no chance involved.

It has been done to me, in town where it had no impact on mine or anyone else's gameplay, as a joke. Just because something is not necessary doesn't make it abuse.

In town i will give you, and were i do think dayve is wrong. The trouble is that is not the only place it was done. Prsm did one on map 12-4, far from town , he did another in candor, while candor was going. Both of these gave the player an advantage, no matter how small. Being honest, i would like to be brought back to life too.

i think i did as you asked

[yourmistakes]

i think i found an excellent avatar for you, georgia boy.

you may want to resize since our avatars are limited to 100*100

also requesting an admin to check if it is just another sockpuppet troll account.