The Mana World Forums

baedamichi wrote: I also don't think that 90 strength and 66 luck are the "typical" graveyard stats for a warrior per se, I would like to point out here that this skill is also (if not mainly) supposed to help medium level characters, and seeing that warriors have to raise 4 of 5 stats in order to be halfway successful in this game

I doubt I'll even have 55 strength by the time I'm a level 99 warrior. I chose to invest more points in Vit/Dex/Luck and it really helps in the graveyard when you have 3 skeletons, a couple of zombies or a zombie and fallen coming at you. I haven't tried the new skill yet, but I wouldn't want to restat. I like the tank play... I may not be the fastest, nor the strongest, but I can take a lot of damage.

I like the idea of the skill, it will be interesting to see what it ends up like. I also appreciate the effort to do something for Warriors. Cheers!

I just updated the testserver with a modified formula. The defense penalty stays the same as before, but the crit bonus is increased.
Please test again.

To have a more realistic view on how it will affect the gameplay, it'd be really good if you could also try some testing playing in a team.

I tried some quick tests and here is my impression:
All tests with raging skill lvl 9.

lvl 99 and 90, 55, 60, 1, 35, 84 = I little bit difficult to survive but you get a very high percentage of criticals.

lvl 80 and 70, 4, 55, 1, 50, 70 = The same difficulty related to defense, but it would work nice in a group at the graveyard.

Making a very rough comparison of the lvl 80 stats with speed lvl 9 and 70, 39, 40, 1, 50, 66, it seems like the raging skill is a little better in this particular case. I only counted the amount of hits necessary to kill a skeleton, and with the raging skill it was around 32. With the speed skill it was 35.

Here is a screenshot of the details related to these 2 stats:
Raging: http://ompldr.org/vYzF2bQ
Speed: http://ompldr.org/vYzF2aQ

I tested a level 40 and a level 60 with raging and speed skill at level 5 or 9.

I killed 10 snails each time.

Here are some screenshots. (the stats with 11 kills have one plant kill)

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1589/lv40raging5.png
http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/5623/lv40speed5.png
http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/861/lv60raging9.png
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2142/lv60speed9.png

I really like the Ragging skill that seems to me quite efficient.

Regards,

Me

Tested with Frost yesterday, teamplay, one warrior with Raging, one with Speed skill focused. Hit the same monsters for about 15 minutes in the graveyard to see the difference when a team's attacking the same monsters.

We found that the warrior with Raging enabled had an advantage, i.e. faster exp gain / levelling, exp per 5 minutes according to Mana Plus approximately 700 higher.

So, it seems that the Raging skill has finally arrived where the devs want it to be, congratulations.

i hope this Ragging skill will help Warrior so much to get stuff in GY than archer or mage..
thanks Dev..

i hope this Ragging skill will help Warrior so much to get stuff in GY than archer or mage..
thanks Dev..

No Ichi, I'm afraid I have to disappoint you there, it won't help a warrior the way you'd like it to help them. As far as I undertsnad the devs, it was never their intention to make raging strong enough for a warrior to be able to pick up items in the graveyard when playing in a team with an archer or a mage. So you will still have to beg archers and mages to create a party with item sharing.

I think maybe you're taking a harsh view of the devs here. Please keep in mind that warrior's don't pay anything to be able to fight, can wear all the best armor with no penalties, and with high enough vit don't even have to pay for healing items while fighting. Warriors for the most part have the ability to grind in an area continuously without leaving for more items, spell ingredients, arrows, etc, so of course those who have to pay for their attacks will be able to deal more damage in general. The skill adds to critical hits, but reduces defense to compensate a little - most warriors put a lot of points into vit, and have decent armor, so this is hardly a big handicap.

Really though, it doesn't motivate people to make something players will like, when players only point out what they don't like about something in development - perhaps pointing out what you Do like, or pointing out constructive ways to make it better would be a more productive way to comment on this .

mistergrey wrote: I think maybe you're taking a harsh view of the devs here.

I'm sorry my previous post was misleading.
I didn't mean to criticize anything about the devs' work here, all I wanted to do was to explain to Ichi that the Raging Skill will not work the way he hoped it would.

mistergrey wrote: or pointing out constructive ways to make it better

As to a constructive way to solve the
"the chance of a warrior to get an item in teamplay without item sharing is almost 0% when a chance of maybe 10-20% (imho) would be fair and enough to compensate for the advantages a warrior has"
problem, I can't come up with a solution myself, as you need to do at least 40% of the damage to a monster (hopefully I got that right, I think I read it in a post once...) to get the item. If warriors did that much damage, it would be unfair against archers and especially mages. Anyway, I guess this is off topic here, it has nothing to do with the Raging Skill as such and would be more appropriate in a dedicated thread on game balance.

mistergrey wrote: perhaps pointing out what you Do like

You're so damn right, the devs don't get praise often enough. So I would like to point out that I do like the general idea behind the Raging Skill, the way the devs listened to the feedback they got from testers and made the raging skill the way it is now.
I'd also like to point out that I like the game in general, and thank the devs for all the work they put into the game.

baedamichi wrote: As to a constructive way to solve the
"the chance of a warrior to get an item in teamplay without item sharing is almost 0% when a chance of maybe 10-20% (imho) would be fair and enough to compensate for the advantages a warrior has"
problem, I can't come up with a solution myself, as you need to do at least 40% of the damage to a monster (hopefully I got that right, I think I read it in a post once...) to get the item. If warriors did that much damage, it would be unfair against archers and especially mages. Anyway, I guess this is off topic here, it has nothing to do with the Raging Skill as such and would be more appropriate in a dedicated thread on game balance.

All drops are given to the player who does the most damage (although it stops recording after 30 players attack the same monster, and it only offers it to players within a certain square radius). The top 3 players get a reservation period - IIRC the default config files give 20 seconds for the first player, 20 more seconds for the first or second player, 20 more seconds for any of the first 3 players, and 20 more seconds for anyone before the dropped item disappears.

If there are only two players attacking, it is the player who does over 50%; if there are 3 players it may be as little as 33%; if some players have left the map (e.g. by dying but not respawning), it could even be 1%.

There's really no way to give a 10% to 20% chance of giving a drop; one player will do more damage than another, or vice versa, leading to roughly 100% drops. (Incidentally, this is one of the reasons I like playing archer: even with disparate levels everybody gets drops, because an archer can solo anything and just hit other people's monsters occasionally).

The amount that this skills rise the % of critical hits depends totally on str?

pedrozs wrote:The amount that this skills rise the % of critical hits depends totally on str?

Yes, each skill has one stat it depends on, Raging depends on Strength. (And it depends on the skill level.)