The Mana World Forums

I voted to oppose, but really strict rules encourage stricter rebellion against said rules.

If you pay real $$ to get ahead in the game, there is no point to even playing.

I think there should be a disclaimer of any real monetary transactions in game play for any reason, to protect investors, operators and developers.
Just my 2 cents.

Voted support, because a rule that prohibits it would be unenforceable, and unenforceable rules are null and void.

Zopar wrote:I think there should be a disclaimer of any real monetary transactions in game play

What do you mean by this? Disclaim responsibility for recognizing the validity of such a transaction? Disclaim responsibility for enforcing any rule against it?

Sanity wrote:a rule that prohibits it would be unenforceable, and unenforceable rules are null and void.

I think I understand this. We can't verify whether such transactions occurred, so there's nothing to act on?

Sanity wrote:Voted support

If we can't enforce a rule that prohibits such a transaction, how can we enforce a rule that supports it? Maybe I misunderstand.

If someone told me they bought an account, I don't feel qualified to verify the transaction. In fact, I would run like hell from any situation that required me to enforce or reverse a real financial transaction. I have neither the knowledge, nor the government license, nor the personal insurance to perform that work. Contact your financial institution.

Some games support RMT by having "premium currency" ingame, that is obtainable through payments/"donations" to game admins, and then can be traded for ingame items to other players or spent on some exclusive stuff from "premium shops". This is the way I see the "Support" option of RMT could work.

Benefits and risks of this I leave to GMs to discuss between themselves.

Sanity wrote:Some games support RMT by having "premium currency" ingame, that is obtainable through payments/"donations" to game admins, and then can be traded for ingame items to other players or spent on some exclusive stuff from "premium shops". This is the way I see the "Support" option of RMT could work.

It has always been decided that we will never do this. The Mana World will always be free in both ways.

o11c wrote:It has always been decided that we will never do this. The Mana World will always be free in both ways.

I agree, TMW will always be free no matter what. I personally oppose to anything that has anything to do with buying anything with real money on the game. TMW has always been completely free and should stay that way.

I agree to give an account or items for donations or between players, but not to sell an account or items for real money!!!

For the main reason is that game is free and no protection for this kind of transaction. So it must be forbidden.

We need a rule for this kind of spam, and today I got one, this player wants to sell his account with a char at level 41 for 5€ paypal (or ebay & payment via paypal, or other options).

At least notify the players that this type of transaction is illegal and report it to a Gm.

So why this Author want to know or what we think about that, if the TMWC can't do something!!!

I voted to ignore it. Additionally i'd like to suggest some kind of disclaimer, that tmw team ist not responsible for anything that results from such matters and does not support it. But said that there is no reason and no chance to really enforce not selling anything for real money.

What may be descussed is a general prohibition of selling an account. Any account is the result of a registration. This is kind of a contract. Part of that countract may and should be, that it is for personal use only and may never be sold (or given freely) to others.

But more than that? Consider someone paying someone other just for helping. Would that be suable? Would that be detectable? It would just be nonsense, since helping beginners is generally free of any charge. But obviously it is not the job of the tmw team to enforce this helping or giving any items or whatsoever. Doing whatever with any private contracts between two players is totally out of scope for the tmw team and this should be said during the registration.

I've chosen "Ignore" option: there are no real ways to reliably track all player interactions/money transactions/etc, especially out of game. So it's pointless to fight windmills (unless your nickname is Don Quixote). This also removes all admins responsibility on the topic, so if someone happens to be scammed this way, etc - it's their own fault and admins/GMs don't have to undertake any actions like reversal of transactions in such cases. Though I don't see why not to warn players these activities are inherently unsafe and scam-prone.

Johanne Laliberté wrote:For the main reason is that game is free and no protection for this kind of transaction. So it must be forbidden.

IMHO it's pointless to forbid what you can't check/enforce: it's not going to work well anyway. So it's like fighting windmils.

If you kept up with the reason why all of the larger online MMORPG's oppose real money trading is because it leads to botting to make large sums of real money fast, and people create a huge flood of characters that hog all the killing of monsters and hogging the drops. All other people who do not bot then are left outpaced by the botters and leave the game. Then you are left with nothing but botters and cheaters playing the game. A whole commercial bot business develops. I'm sure your server and the lower level players would love it. Runescape banned millions of botters for this in one sweep a few years ago. It was killing the game.

If you think this would not go that way, you're wrong. If people find a way to make a dollar they will do it, no matter what it destroys. Some of the ones who do not oppose this maybe are looking to make some money that way, but won't admit it. Just like those who supported attack following were the bullies who were trying to make others so discouraged that they would leave the game, and they did leave the game.

It's a game. Supposed to be fun. It's not a business. It does not matter if you could enforce this. It is wrong. It does not matter if only the buyer gets caught or only the seller gets caught, either is still guilty. Why should developers and Mad Camel allow their free gift to be sold for another bum's profit? Outrageous.

Sanity wrote:Voted support, because a rule that prohibits it would be unenforceable, and unenforceable rules are null and void.

Therefore since not all thieves can be caught, there should be no law against theft, being null and void. Not all murders are caught; so laws against murder would be null and void. That's some really brain-dead logic. Maybe you are selling items for real money and you answered this way.

I've chosen the "ignore it" option. The game doesn't deal with money in any way, so supporting it would be out of place, but opposing it would be out of place as well, since it's not anyone's business except for the people directly involved in the trade.

wilddawg wrote:Therefore since not all thieves can be caught, there should be no law against theft,

If law could not be enforced more or less reliably, there is no point to create it. It's unavoidable retribution what makes laws working. If retribution easily avoided, such law just not going to work and rather wastes everyone time and resources.