Re: Content Development Roadmap
Posted: 28 Oct 2014, 16:05
Okay, I can comprehend that. Now, to get the back stories for each. You may already have these.
Feel the mana power growing inside you!
https://forums.themanaworld.org/
are you going to let the players learn a skill such as weaving,
TMWA already does have a skill system. The professions are set-up to show up under their own skill tab called "professions". There is no need to add anything to the server code.You'll need a database to keep track of who knows what first of all. That involves creation of algrithms and capacities to deal with looking up a player's skills, level of skills and so on. Ultimately, that could even require another server, simply dedicated to that particular database
Yes, it's mainly longtime active players asking for this.It's not anything extra work wise asides from the initial scripting of the professions which I've already done. Whats left is extracting recipes from current quests and writing new recipes where NPCs didn't already have recipes for.Are the developers and admin on board with such extra processes?
The game will always remain free. We are a 503 (c) non-profit involved with Software for the Public Interest This project will, as long as I have breathe in me, remain Free and Open Source. The project is run by many who believe in keeping this game free and open.Will the game remain free to play considering this creates more effort, which likely will cause some to ask for payment in some form? Honestly, has that been considered?
The exact system you complained about happening is what TMW does currently in-game. Anyone can gather everything needed. Thus rarely does anyone goto someone else for materials or reagents other then maybe coal. The point of professions is to put more resources into players hands so they do sell more and move money and resources among each other. Currently the economy is quite stagnant.say gather white fur, herbs, iron ore, coal then set up as a shop to sell these.
wushin wrote:No each profession has a gathering profession. Foragers only gather small potion items; herbs, clams, etc. Mining gathers coal, ores, etc. Tanning gathers leather from hides, etc. Not that other profession won't need items gathered or crafted to make other items. No 1 profession will gather everything. the NPCs for crafting are merely the "Craft" objects you need to be near; forges, alembics, looms, etc. The NPCs involved in Professions while either; Train you up in your profession or send you on a quest to learn a recipe. In addition, Profession skill levels are going to be tied to character level so there is a minimum level to acquire higher skills levels and stronger recipes.
[*]Okay. This is where I get lost. You say the NPC will act as trainer. So you're saying they teach a player to build a loom, a crucible, forge and so on? If not, you still have players tied to an NPC each time they desire using a profession.
"I can craft a shirt but I need to go to NPC X to use their loom."
That to me does not really change up the game mechanics, compared to a player learning to build their own forge, becoming a blacksmith. If they merely learn the tradecraft, they are not really artisians but still foraging serfs.
Yes that exactly whats planned. Allowing a choice of 2 from 8 professions a character can learn.
[*]TMWA already does have a skill system. The professions are set-up to show up under their own skill tab called "professions". There is no need to add anything to the server code.*nods* Got that. Each player can be up to 8 different professions.
[*]Yes, it's mainly longtime active players asking for this.It's not anything extra work wise asides from the initial scripting of the professions which I've already done. Whats left is extracting recipes from current quests and writing new recipes where NPCs didn't already have recipes for.Ah. I was not aware of that not having ever set up a server. Have only seen the client end and to limited degree the basic workings of some admin/scripting.
[*]The game will always remain free. We are a 503 (c) non-profit involved with Software for the Public Interest This project will, as long as I have breathe in me, remain Free and Open Source. The project is run by many who believe in keeping this game free and open.Right, I follow what you're saying there. To me it reads as though you're going to have the NPC give the player a foraging list. "I need x of y to create z, go fetch. I'll teach you how to make z." And here again, I get lost. You seem to not teach players to build tools, just items or products from tools. But you may be teaching to build tools and I'm not seeing that. If I am failing to see it, my apologies.
[*]The exact system you complained about happening is what TMW does currently in-game. Anyone can gather everything needed. Thus rarely does anyone goto someone else for materials or reagents other then maybe coal. The point of professions is to put more resources into players hands so they do sell more and move money and resources among each other. Currently the economy is quite stagnant.Fair enough. One thing, something I tell my nephews too. "It's a game, it stops being fun, walk away." There's no point to grant excessive feality, such as swearing a life to a game. Trust my experience in this regard. Any game will eat you up, spit you back out if you let it. None are worth that. Only love is ever worth that, or the life of one you love. Let those who love all others go off and fight the dragons, it's what we do. You guys just keep spinning the tales.
[*]I've been working on the skills/professions framework for about 2 years now, I'm pretty certain the mechanics are fine. I agree it's hard to see it without it being on a server. It's such a divergent to how TMW does anything typically, but it's a step in the right direction. Let me explain why professions.Yes, I can agree with a stagnate economy in game. I had an idea regarding guilds and a dynamic economy once, tried fleshing it out over with Land of Fire. A scripter there thought it might be doable. We just could not manage to get it fleshed out. Change was resisted. And I'm not trying to resist the change you're pushing for here, with these professions. May seem I am. Think of it as me seeing if you're ready to leap out the plane. "Got that chute buckled? Your webbing secure? Got a good knife?"
Professions accomplish some major things:
1) Chars are limited to types of materials they can produce by be limited to 2 professions.
1a) Makes alts a more valuable resource to level as it increases the profession count & thus types of material player has on hand.
2a) Players will have to trade or interact more to gain resources. This increases the social aspect and economic aspects of the game.
3a) Adds alternative action when grinding. By moving part of the resource collection out of the monsters and into NPCs your harvest diminishes boredom and the effects of simple bots or semi-afk grinders.
4a) By putting the more valuable nodes in areas with tougher monster & PvP enabled areas access is controlled in ways other then just base level or base skill of character as outside elements can "kill" you before you can finish gathering.
2) Economics
2a) By allowing players to control the supply and demand through their own character actions they will augment the drop rates when they are bad. example: Coal is currently the most often farmed as you need a lot of it. It's on the ManaMarket becuase it fetches a nice price and semi-tolerable to farm. The price of Coal in game fluctuates but so does the supply. Currently a large set of items are unobtainable this way and thus can not enter the economy.
2b) Multiple paths for farming. As few real options exist for acquiring wealth and resources currently; Its red slimes, coal or rares.
3) No one yet has a profession.
3a) Old players & New players will start on a pretty even ground.
3b) Helps lower levels level better and less boring.
The amount of code added increases the current content by about 8 fold. It requires very little change on the server data. The majority of the additions are the new NPC "nodes" or "craft objects". Quests in-game will still allow anyone to complete them, but going forward there will be profession specific quests. The NPCs added are being worked on being added via a script method so it's not a complete pain in the butt. The NPCs for professions are already in game and can be changed slightly with a function call to become a "trainer" in a profession.
[*]*nods & winks* "Okay, looks like you're good to go!" *pats your helmet, steps out of your way*
I think though older players who will have storages full of items, may be at an advantage. They can hit the ground running as it were.
Squirrel pelts go for 25gp each. That means 400 pelts would get 1,000gp. Yes, I did the math, thought about it as a means to attaining some gp. Realized the game on the TMW server's drop rates was really crappy for even that. They rather drop acorns, grass seeds, herbs. I might kill 400 squirrel to get 1 pelt. Such drop rates make it so that players simply choose to not bother.
They will go ask others for trading, buying. If they rather not ask, they just don't play. That is about where I am. And drop rates too can easily be fixed as far as I'm aware. Will they be? I have my doubts, even if your professions seek to augment them. I may be wrong. We'll see.
I have some knowledge of the scripting, in fact did read over your scripts. It still appeared that you were not teaching players to build tools, rather to rely upon NPCs as in game Non-Playing Characters, like Nicholas the blacksmith in Hurnscald. If you do that, to me it seems nothing more than continuing to give players forage lists, let the player return to the NPC to craft an item. That to me does not seem a profession. Players would still be doing as players do.wushin wrote:_cordo_ I appreciate your enthusiasm about helping and offering advice. I'm not making sense as this is not easily explained to someone without knowledge of the TMW server script languages. As when I say NPC, I mean script. As all NPCs, Shops, Mobs, are all scripts and callable via scripts. If you would like to understand what my code in Professions, please feel free to read up on How-To develop & Script Language. We are very open to change and have modified a lot of the code. Please feel free to watch and read the forums and wiki and join IRC. Get a feel of what we do and how we work and come back and read my posts. It does seem like it would be "easy" but making changes like these are incredibly complex.
And this is exactly what I had meant. The players will not be allowed to create anywhere in game. They must return to an NPC to create the item.wushin wrote:These ideas are pretty standard as I'm borrowing from http://www.uo.com/Crafting and http://www.wowwiki.com/Profession as they are pretty much the standard of how professions work. Brief MMOPRG Crafting history
Still not getting what you mean by letting players build stuff, because that is exactly what the recipes https://github.com/wushin/tmwa-server-d ... ecipes.txt do. If you mean any where any time, that is a crazy thought as bots will decimate the economy. As no limits would sink pretty much any non-botter.
We discuss changes with players and poll for certain additions. All these threads are about TMW Development Forum & open to be discussed with anyone. There are recent examples of exactly what you say:On this server I have seen around 50 players or so. Any rationale why a forum poll cannot be used to gain consensus regarding changes? This was something done on other servers, still seems to happen at times. Changes occur without lynch mobs because the players request them.