The Mana World Forums

Chay wrote:no there is no need to log all public chat to allow multi point validation. and if i understood that correctly tmwc trusts it's members to be integer.
since when has
"we've always done it we'll always do it, why no ?!?, *everybody* could say that!" been a valid point?

don't make this a thread about public chat logging again Chicka-Maria, it is stupid (and yes, i *mean* stupid) to believe that the one and only way to solve this problem is a technical one. It is not. I do however agree that It is one that does not involve need for communication.

It's how it is, other wise we can have newer forum accounts posting screenshots that could be faked. It's not hard to fake a screenshot. It's why the thread was suggested. I'm sorry you're upset over the matter.


regards,
Chicka

Ginaria is very nice. Can't imagine that

It's yet again the fault of these frenchy!

Chay, Chicka: Ginaria didn't make this thread for these players to be banned, it's just to warn the community.
Also, developers shouldn't take moderator's and GM's tasks, otherwise o11c would ban everybody.

Reid wrote:It's yet again the fault of these frenchy!

Chay, Chicka: Ginaria didn't make this thread for these players to be banned, it's just to warn the community.
Also, developers shouldn't take moderator's and GM's tasks, otherwise o11c would ban everybody.

I definitely don't subscribe to racism...weakest pathetic way to pick on a person for nothing. It shows the lack of thinking ability of the person who engages in it, and their weak personality in thinking it is okay to hurt someone based on something that another person isn't in control of.

I do think though that the people were abusive to the player, and this is one of those issues where a general log would be beneficial to vindicate a person from being accused of making stuff up if it happens.

The rules were broken, in that another player was abused by others. It wasn't an argument, but specific targetting and picking on...sure, someone could say "Oh, but maybe the screenshot was made up", but that enforces why it's important to have a log. Personally, if a player carries on like this, they should be brought before the judicial committee, and if it is found that they DID do such things, the LEAST thing that should happen is an acknowledgement given that they broke the rules of the game, and given a formal warning. Sure, that's my opinion, but it's also "the rules"...at least the part about not abusing our fellow players.

What annoys me is that in society all this hoohar about bullying, and how wrong it is, and yet the bullies are allowed to continue to exist by the stupidity of trying to reason with them on their level. That's why even today it goes on in schools, workplaces, and online. And to say it's "just" trolling, well then think "Oh, it was only a piece of lead". Both can be permanently damaging to an individual, just because the person firing it off doesn't "intend" to specifically hurt, or fired it at a friend as a joke. "I just fired my gun in fun", or "I was aiming at a bird". There's a place for that sort of stuff, but as the rules state that abusing other players is wrong, then the place isn't here. There are other places if one wants a shooting gallery. Go there. There are abuse chat sites. Made just for the troll. This leads me to the next point that considering that these places exist, why do people have to insist in bringing nastiness here? They should go and find a troll site, where people are giving them permission to abuse them. If they don't want to, it shows that they personally don't like being trolled themselves, and highlights the hidden away weakness of biting an unexpecting victim. Very weak personality. Taking pleasure at making a happy person's life miserable. Disgusting. The people who insist on doing this are really scraping the bottom of the barrel of human emotions. Yes, lots of words, and I mean every one of them. Opinionated? Maybe. Still, I'm happy to not like taking pleasure in nastiness.

-> Good things happen if you go for it. (Alan Webb)
-> The best way to predict the future is to invent it!(together) (Alan Kay)
-> Seek for the wisdom of the ages, but look at the world through the eyes of a child. (Hopi)

Chicka-Maria wrote:Sadly screenshots don't prove anything. As it was voted the general log can't be checked to see if it's real.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17954&hilit=General+log

Regards,
Chicka

o11c wrote:Therefore, I propose that all public chat be logged. This would allow screenshots to be accepted as evidence in the Court House abuse as long as it's not in whispers. Only server admins would be able to see the logs and confirm.

What is real? In the end, we will always have to rely on someone. Why not use the witnesses?

AFAIK, there are no rules here when we have not a cop around...

As a GM i can't do squat from images such as as those. As a human being and a player I can chose what I do think about those characters. So can the rest of the people who sees this, I guess they will have a hard time getting help with quests etc.

Where gm's cant act mob rules applies imo. Same goes for scammers that cannot be caught by GM's etc.

lle0 wrote:What is real? In the end, we will always have to rely on someone. Why not use the witnesses?

AFAIK, there are no rules here when we have not a cop around...

because witnesses can fake screenshots/"fake witness" and gang up on someone they want banned simply because they don't like the person.

regards,
Chicka

This is preposterous! I should be named the most nice player of this year, by the virtue of having not logged in and giving you poor bastards some peace and quiet!

Chicka-Maria wrote:

lle0 wrote:What is real? In the end, we will always have to rely on someone. Why not use the witnesses?

AFAIK, there are no rules here when we have not a cop around...

because witnesses can fake screenshots/"fake witness" and gang up on someone they want banned simply because they don't like the person.

regards,
Chicka

In the same way, server admins can fake a verification over the general log and save someone they don't want banned simply because they like the person.

lle0 wrote:

Chicka-Maria wrote:

lle0 wrote:What is real? In the end, we will always have to rely on someone. Why not use the witnesses?

AFAIK, there are no rules here when we have not a cop around...

because witnesses can fake screenshots/"fake witness" and gang up on someone they want banned simply because they don't like the person.

regards,
Chicka

In the same way, server admins can fake a verification over the general log and save someone they don't want banned simply because they like the person.

Well theoretically yes, in reality i would say that this scenario would be a long shot, most often when people are getting abused like this there are others around, take this case for instance, there are at least five other people around and I guess that if the reporter together with the admin would try to forge anything like this the others would speak up against it.

Also I do not think that any admin has that much time to fight petty wars with people they dislike, also admins are not to ban people that is the GMs job, they help with investigation though. So I really have a hard time seeing this as a big problem to be honest.

Chicka-Maria wrote:because witnesses can fake screenshots/"fake witness" and gang up on someone they want banned simply because they don't like the person.

I do not see how assumption that "Ginaria can fake logs" fundamentally differs from assumption "server staff can fake logs". Furthermore, its a big question if people around would trust Ginaria less than server staff, etc. For me it looks like telling that police should not accept any reports from citizens and should only rely on their own camera records to deal with crime. Which is strange idea, isn't it? Usual practice is to accept reports but with severe punishment for doing false claims, which discourages such actions.

And in the world where human problems are solved in purely technical way it usually looks like this. Nice place to live, isn't it?

Other than the obvious fact that the we trust ourselves:

Keep in mind that there are *two* set of witnesses if the chat was logged: the people in-game who saw it and reported it (possibly with screenshots or something), and the people with direct access to the server who can *verify* it.

You can feed them to me at any time 011c