The Mana World Forums

It'll be abused. I guarantee it. There's no way it wouldn't be when there are "high-value" items involved.

Here's how I would abuse it:
Modify client to make a loud honking sound when the special mob appears.
Wait a random amount of time (up to 10 seconds) and attack this mob.
Pick up any drops. Walk back to home location, sit, and maybe randomly emote or say a phrase from a list of thousands.
If my name is said within 5 minutes of an attack and I don't respond within 30 seconds, forward chat to/from my phone's SMS for a bit.

These client modifications would take less than an hour to perform and I am an absolutely horrible programmer.. I could run as many of these as needed to cover the entire hurnscald area, 24/7.

You bet your ass someone else will do something similar. Why do you think there's so many clovers floating around even though it's droprate is tiny?

Find an un-abuseable way to get rares into the game and I'm cool with it. The proposal as it stands won't work.

In my opinion we should have a dungeoun for this rare mob. We have to look at this mob as the end game...

I made a new variant of the mouboo that is more "white" than the other, i am currently a bit too lazy to check it out in tmw-surroundings so someone, please do.

And also, i just made the regular mouboo converted to grayscale for the first version, the other is that and i fiddled a bit with the brightness, so i wouldn't consider it my work really, it is just tinkering around with someone elses fine work.

I'd rather see this get finished if possible to be used for the new rare mob. Bat Holder

Agree with Mr.Sloth, dungeon + endgame = Best Of All Possible Win.
There we could have an End Boss like Illia with Rare drops + we could add a special rare mob that doesn't need to be beaten & might not always appear in that instance. That way people would still get something, but only the ultra lucky would get the Bonus spawn. This could also help balance out weapons gear for higher levels.

veryape wrote:I made a new variant of the mouboo that is more "white" than the other, i am currently a bit too lazy to check it out in tmw-surroundings so someone, please do.

And also, i just made the regular mouboo converted to grayscale for the first version, the other is that and i fiddled a bit with the brightness, so i wouldn't consider it my work really, it is just tinkering around with someone elses fine work.

i'm a bit lazy to and did the same thing with a mouboo color variant a year ago, i have the file on my Mana flash drive, but i eventualy stepped it up a bit and did some color shading to make it look more like a dairy cow, so it would go along with my Mouboo Wrangler NPC, maybe i can post some of those sets if anyones interested. I am still just confused to no ends about the licensing thingy, thats why i have yet to make my art serious for the game

ozthokk wrote:

veryape wrote:I made a new variant of the mouboo that is more "white" than the other, i am currently a bit too lazy to check it out in tmw-surroundings so someone, please do.

And also, i just made the regular mouboo converted to grayscale for the first version, the other is that and i fiddled a bit with the brightness, so i wouldn't consider it my work really, it is just tinkering around with someone elses fine work.

i'm a bit lazy to and did the same thing with a mouboo color variant a year ago, i have the file on my Mana flash drive, but i eventualy stepped it up a bit and did some color shading to make it look more like a dairy cow, so it would go along with my Mouboo Wrangler NPC, maybe i can post some of those sets if anyones interested. I am still just confused to no ends about the licensing thingy, thats why i have yet to make my art serious for the game

If you have any licensing thingy questions, feel free to make a new topic about it. I'm sure there are people (including me) that are willing to answer any questions you might have about them

Or join the IRC channel, and ask there.

MadCamel wrote:It'll be abused. I guarantee it. There's no way it wouldn't be when there are "high-value" items involved.

Here's how I would abuse it:
Modify client to make a loud honking sound when the special mob appears.
Wait a random amount of time (up to 10 seconds) and attack this mob.
Pick up any drops. Walk back to home location, sit, and maybe randomly emote or say a phrase from a list of thousands.
If my name is said within 5 minutes of an attack and I don't respond within 30 seconds, forward chat to/from my phone's SMS for a bit.

These client modifications would take less than an hour to perform and I am an absolutely horrible programmer.. I could run as many of these as needed to cover the entire hurnscald area, 24/7.

You bet your ass someone else will do something similar. Why do you think there's so many clovers floating around even though it's droprate is tiny?

Find an un-abuseable way to get rares into the game and I'm cool with it. The proposal as it stands won't work.

I saw that i never wrote down my thoughts about this argument, so here it goes.

I think that this is the wrong way around to think about things from the start. Sure it can be exploited, so can everything that gives xp in game, thus the problem with botting/automation in all mmorpgs.

However if our focus is to minimize all chances of botting we could always shut the game down tomorrow - problem solved.

From my point of view our main focus is to make content for the lawful/good player to enjoy as first priority, make it hard to exploit comes some way down the list of things that is important - otherwise we will hamper the development greatly. Also since the drop rate of rares are quite low.

This is quite an old and well discussed topic in the moral philosophy, at least in the field of utilitarianism, what is the goal? to maximize pleasure or minimize suffering. I would always go on the maximize thing first, and then have minimize suffering as the second target.


About the end game boss. Sure why not have both?

I don't like the idea. I prefer the idea of trading boss points for rares. Another way is, you can add rares at exotic trader for incredibly high price. I don't like the idea of gplayers getting these rares easily. Its very hard to find someone who sells rares and even harder to buy them with gp or other rares. Whatever maybe the method of obtaining rare, it will loose its value as rarity if it can be obtained easier than as it is now. When there are more of the same item its no longer called rare. Even if the drop rate if certain rare is 0.001%, people will find it. Here's the list of possible solutions:-

1. Make rares available for boss points.
2. Make rares available at exotic trader at very very high price.
3. Make rares as drop of some crypt boss similar to krukan. I suggest general terogan and razha should have some rare drops similar to darkhelm.
4. Another illia like quest which can be done at level 99 but there's some chance of getting rare and some minute chance of getting super rare.

My thinking is that with this type of abuse the items wouldn't be rare anymore after a year or so, making the whole shebang kinda pointless.

deepthought wrote:I don't like the idea. I prefer the idea of trading boss points for rares. Another way is, you can add rares at exotic trader for incredibly high price. I don't like the idea of gplayers getting these rares easily. Its very hard to find someone who sells rares and even harder to buy them with gp or other rares. Whatever maybe the method of obtaining rare, it will loose its value as rarity if it can be obtained easier than as it is now. When there are more of the same item its no longer called rare. Even if the drop rate if certain rare is 0.001%, people will find it. Here's the list of possible solutions:-

1. Make rares available for boss points.
2. Make rares available at exotic trader at very very high price.
3. Make rares as drop of some crypt boss similar to krukan. I suggest general terogan and razha should have some rare drops similar to darkhelm.
4. Another illia like quest which can be done at level 99 but there's some chance of getting rare and some minute chance of getting super rare.

1. The mob spawns will themselves be rare.
The drop rate of rares will be low.

This leads to it not being really easy to get rares and that there won't be a big inflation of them. Since you talked of Krukan, have you seen many dark helms lately? And the spawns of Krukan is up to players, they pay for it.

2. This is not the only way to make rares obtainable, i still like the boss point idea, but some people seems to think that it is not a good idea. I think it is great because it would give the older player a new goal. And if they really wanted a special rare but havn't had a chance getting one it is a way to finally get one. And if youve got that many bosspoints you have earned it.

MadCamel wrote:My thinking is that with this type of abuse the items wouldn't be rare anymore after a year or so, making the whole shebang kinda pointless.

With a small enough droprate and rare enough spawn i don't see this as a big problem, the maths of it is tweakable to keep the rares rare.

veryape wrote:

MadCamel wrote:My thinking is that with this type of abuse the items wouldn't be rare anymore after a year or so, making the whole shebang kinda pointless.

With a small enough droprate and rare enough spawn i don't see this as a big problem, the maths of it is tweakable to keep the rares rare.

Madcamel have math on his side, even with a low drop rate it will just increase the number of this item in game, so on a large scale item "won't be rare" anymore.

Reid wrote:

veryape wrote:

MadCamel wrote:My thinking is that with this type of abuse the items wouldn't be rare anymore after a year or so, making the whole shebang kinda pointless.

With a small enough droprate and rare enough spawn i don't see this as a big problem, the maths of it is tweakable to keep the rares rare.

Madcamel have math on his side, even with a low drop rate it will just increase the number of this item in game, so on a large scale item "won't be rare" anymore.

if it will take years to become not that rare from "alsmost impossible to get one" its not that bad eh

Reid wrote:

veryape wrote:

MadCamel wrote:My thinking is that with this type of abuse the items wouldn't be rare anymore after a year or so, making the whole shebang kinda pointless.

With a small enough droprate and rare enough spawn i don't see this as a big problem, the maths of it is tweakable to keep the rares rare.

Madcamel have math on his side, even with a low drop rate it will just increase the number of this item in game, so on a large scale item "won't be rare" anymore.

I beg to differ, i think that we lose more rares from old players that have quit game than this thing will ever introduce again. Say we spawn one of them ever 24 hours, and they have a 0,02% chance of dropping a eye patch, how many days between drops will it be in if it drops statistically predictable? I don't see it as a huge problem.

Reid wrote: Madcamel have math on his side, even with a low drop rate it will just increase the number of this item in game, so on a large scale item "won't be rare" anymore.

Nah, It'll be fine. It will take a very long time for the items to be dropped, so I doubt that we'll see these items in huge numbers anytime soon.

veryape wrote: I beg to differ, i think that we lose more rares from old players that have quit game than this thing will ever introduce again. Say we spawn one of them ever 24 hours, and they have a 0,02% chance of dropping a eye patch, how many days between drops will it be in if it drops statistically predictable? I don't see it as a huge problem.

Veryape has a point, old players leaving the game with their rares in tow is a problem. It will only get harder to obtain rares as time goes by, unless they're reintroduced in some way.
Thanks for pointing this out.

Just tossing this idea out there, How about the rares in question just be altered in a way that makes them unique. Like how the eggshell hat was recolored for the Easter quest. Or adding some extra details to others. Or not just rares, but commons like the Bandana only make a dyeable version. That way the people who have those old rares won`t feel like their rares that they worked hard getting will be common place again. Just a thought..