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Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 21 Oct 2008, 18:31
by MasterKenobi
Bjørn wrote:My problem with the ban of IceRegen was that IceRegan was never properly informed about it. She did not know how long the ban would take (while it fact it was permanent), and she apologized for "botting" (even though she was merely doing was she saw most people do). Platyna did not feel any action was necessary from her side, so I decided to unban IceRegen.

In my opinion we can't keep up the current way of just banning people when they are observed to be botting, for a few simple reasons:

* The game currently does not communicate any useful information about a ban to the player (either no length, or in older versions, an incorrect indication of a 5 minute ban).
* It doesn't say anywhere what the punishment for botting is. I wasn't aware of people being banned indefinitely for botting, was I the only one?
* "Botting" is defined as holding Ctrl +A. This is simply ridiculous. As long as TMW is a game in which botting is so easy, it is plain silly to fight "botters".

I'm going to throw in my two cents here.

First: IceRegan WAS informed that botting was against the rules. I specifically told her on several occasions, and her response was always "I no bot, I talking" or something to that effect. I directed her to the wiki AND the forums which she is clearly capable of translating.

Second: who cares if the client lets her know why she's banned, or how long? She found her way to the forums, she can ask.

Third: apologize or not, she broke the rules(knowingly imo) and breaking rules have consequences. If indeed the moderator believes she genuinely didn't know botting was against the rules fine, she still shouldn't get to keep the spoils of her botting. Reset her character and let her know she's getting a second chance.

Finally: In my opinion you CAN keep up the current way of just banning people when they are observed to be botting, for a few simple reasons:

*There are several good honest players who play this game several hours a day and are constantly warning these people that they are breaking the rules. You have good moderators who seem to be doing there jobs. There is a wiki with the rules listed and forums with the rules listed. So until you can implement a way to add the ban information to the game, trust your moderators and maybe even some of your good honest players.
*Again, I(and others) remind players that botting=BANNED. If you didn't know then YES, you were the only one.

In the past few weeks there were several times when there were 5 or 6 bots in the mines at one time. Putting aside the fact that it makes it difficult to train in the mines with a bunch of bots stealing all the kills. It's disheartening to know I've spent a lot of hard hours training to get to my level, and a bunch of cheaters are able to do it so easily and NOW get away with it.

IMO, this is a slap in the face to all of us honest players and your moderators!

I may be done playing this game.........I don't know?

Sorry for the long post, thanks for reading.
MK :-(

EDIT: Yesterday was the first day in the last few weeks I could train in the mines without the annoyance of bots. I forgot how fun the game could be.....THANKYOU Platyna!!! :)

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 21 Oct 2008, 18:37
by Jaxad0127
The main problem is that it was a permanent ban. We discussed on IRC and found this to be acceptable:
1st offense: 1 day
2nd offense: 1 week
3rd offense: Permanent

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 21 Oct 2008, 18:39
by octalot
Bjørn wrote:* "Botting" is defined as holding Ctrl +A.
I think changing rule 2 to be "2. No bots (that includes jamming the Ctrl + A keys down)." would be clearer.

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 21 Oct 2008, 18:50
by Black Don
kickinyourface wrote:so the higher bots would use em...
not really if there are enough monsters in there they will kill anyone who stands still for any length of time. I have character that has 93 vitality and it can still dye in the mines if enough monsters gang up. I have lured attacking monsters to kill bots in the mines all the time.

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 21 Oct 2008, 20:09
by IceRegen
@kenobi what you say is no right you KENOBI have me no informe

JAJAJA all new Player bann he/she make a fehler and no New chance!! look she/he NEW and can speak Warning in RED Oher?
this can make Programing no Idea?

and Kenobi i have say i can no good speak English here Big user Germany no say i help you anderstand! i speak what i can you dont anderstand me tja!!! i dont anderstand you and translate

what give he a quite me mak TOOO bad here????
I know all of us here know what I think and make woow and after one and a half weeks!
nobody here has said yes ok is well away with its banner away! since it is not the only one here!

This thema is for me Clouset!!

have a good afternon and sleep good

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 22 Oct 2008, 12:03
by Turmfalke
jaxad0127 wrote:The main problem is that it was a permanent ban. We discussed on IRC and found this to be acceptable:
1st offense: 1 day
2nd offense: 1 week
3rd offense: Permanent
Does that mean you are allowed to bot until you get your 1 day ban(how annoying) and after that day you are allowed to move your items to your next char and start again with botting?

yea.. that's the solution.

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 22 Oct 2008, 15:25
by peavey
.

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 22 Oct 2008, 15:29
by kickinyourface
maybe the rules should be translated into the most important languages...
i could do the german ones if it's needed =P

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 22 Oct 2008, 20:30
by Platyna
Ok, after smashing Bjorn several times with a trout, he has reluctantly agreed with me. We will also make some client improvements towards this issue.

I sinply knew, that he is nice and resonable blonde beast.

Regards.

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 22 Oct 2008, 21:49
by MasterKenobi
Platyna wrote:Ok, after smashing Bjorn several times with a trout, he has reluctantly agreed with me. We will also make some client improvements towards this issue.

I sinply knew, that he is nice and resonable blonde beast.

Regards.

:lol:

I wonder if that trick will work on my wife!

I'm Glad things worked out.

MK

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 22 Oct 2008, 22:59
by celso
please people, just write on the http://themanaworld.org/ that boting can be punished by permanent ban. after that, the boting people cant give any excuse.
the game is in beta and is to test! this is for us to see where is the game bugs. and, in my opinion( and is only my opinion) imagin,if we had allowed boting, woldnt we put the bot software for all the comunity? or at least a link? bjorn, i understand your way of thinking, and to resolve this situation, i recomend a rules key after the setup key on the game.

sorry my bad english. i live in portugal.

peace

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 22 Oct 2008, 23:26
by Jaxad0127
celso wrote:please people, just write on the http://themanaworld.org/ that boting can be punished by permanent ban. after that, the boting people cant give any excuse.
the game is in beta and is to test! this is for us to see where is the game bugs. and, in my opinion( and is only my opinion) imagin,if we had allowed boting, woldnt we put the bot software for all the comunity? or at least a link? bjorn, i understand your way of thinking, and to resolve this situation, i recomend a rules key after the setup key on the game.

sorry my bad english. i live in portugal.

peace
And for those who don't go through our site to get the client?

We're working on other ways to notify people of the rules.

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 23 Oct 2008, 00:34
by Booth
so the ctrl+a thing is against the rules or not? lol

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 23 Oct 2008, 00:38
by Jaxad0127
Booth wrote:so the ctrl+a thing is against the rules or not? lol
Weighing them down and such and walking away is.

Re: Important information about botting.

Posted: 23 Oct 2008, 08:11
by Platyna
Well, any way to inform players about rules is useful. I think I will add then to the packages and the source tree README file.

Regards.