The Mana World Forums

jax wrote:You want open? Here: Platyna. Most of GHP would rather run TMW without her. If she bans me for this, so much the better. I'll just leave and work on another project.

Those are words not feelings. Platyna is a good person, but she need to understand that the game has two sides. The ghp and the community. With out both you have no game.

Turmfalke, the irc is a great way to communicate and share ideas, but not a way to showcase ideas to the broader public.

To share your ideas with people can donate only money, you need to make it clear what they can do. For example. The front page of the website needs to clearly state what the current development is doing, time tables or current status, and where they plan on going. It only tells you where you have been. Not good for money.


I am not saying we need to destroy the current power structure, but that power structure needs to be more honest and open with the community.
The first step is transparency. These are our current issues and problems, and where we want to try to fix them.

That is only thing we want from you. Just tell us where we stand.

For example, what events are current plan for the next few months, and do you need help with them. Be specific.

DarkWater wrote:

jaxad0127 wrote:

DarkWater wrote:...snipped for brevity...

Most of what you said is about a single person in GHP. Come onto IRC and we can discuss that person more freely.

No there was alot about you in there.

IRC is not open, clear, honest, channel. What is said there, can not be used to support your cause. It can not be made to get donations.

It is just another backroom deal.

DarkWater wrote:You want open? Here: Platyna. Most of GHP would rather run TMW without her. If she bans me for this, so much the better. I'll just leave and work on another project.

Jax, I dont think Dark Water wanted to destroy or start fights between GHP.

That would be harmful for all the community, and no one would really like that. Anyway, thanks for your honesty.

Regards,

Alons.

DarkWater wrote: ....... The front page of the website needs to clearly state what the current development is doing, time tables or current status, and where they plan on going. It only tells you where you have been. Not good for money.

I am not saying we need to destroy the current power structure, but that power structure needs to be more honest and open with the community.
The first step is transparency. These are our current issues and problems, and where we want to try to fix them.

That is only thing we want from you. Just tell us where we stand.

For example, what events are current plan for the next few months, and do you need help with them. Be specific.

DW, you can try http://bugs.manasource.org/ to check out what's going on. I am sorry, i dont think the first page of a website should be filled with such infos.

Well, admins are mainly programmers/coders. A programmer needs full dedication/concentration while coding. It's tough for them to deal with other social perspectives which slips their concentration.

And it's not that the game is ruined or so. Peoples are coming, playing, enjoying, leaving. It's not going that bad. And practically it's not always possible to be so strict with rules cos rules themselves aren't perfect & subject to change.

And i dont think it's time to start raise funds. When some funding is necessary for the domain/server maintenance the best way is to look for donations. Advertisement not bad but it'll create some issues. I would suggest to follow wikipedia's method while raising funds. (amaze, they don't need advertisements)

iceslice wrote: DW, you can try http://bugs.manasource.org/ to check out what's going on. I am sorry, i dont think the first page of a website should be filled with such infos.

And i dont think it's time to start raise funds. When some funding is necessary for the domain/server maintenance the best way is to look for donations.

I completely agree, it is not the time to start raising money.

But iceslice, how are people suppose to support the server, when we do not know if it is going to be here in the next 3 months.
We can look at manasource, but that is not going to help with Ea.

Yes, the programmer only look at code and that is the problem. I have never meant a programmer that had people skills, which is my point.

They need to start to make an effort to communicate with the community.

And I do think the front web page is a great place to say. We are going to have an event on June 21st. We are currently 50% done with the code and need to get testers.

That is where you should place that.

We need communcation between the the group holding power and the community.

I do not expect money and never will.

[[url=irc://irc.themanaworld.org]irc.themanaworld.org[/url]]. lurk moar.
You're more than welcome to follow progress and post updates on the forums if you feel there is a need.


also, ibtl.


---Freeyorp

Sorry for triggering anyone's defenses. Read the topic though, it is for you (you) not just the ghp.
I don't think anyone will ask for money, they will simply leave when they can't afford to give anymore.

perhaps progress and requests for assistance on projects could be on the Update window? Everyone who plays has to go through that.

Also Jaxed, your method of refuting an argument leaves alot to be desired. As someone in a position of authority, 'cleverness', 'funny', or 'sarcastic' comments should be avoided when it regards a disagreement that you apparently take seriously. A simple ' please provide examples' would suffice, and avoid childishness.

Also, in regard to calling out Playtna, regardless of truth, this just goes to underline DW's basic point of poor communication, amongst the higher powers no less. If the group has a problem with one person, the one person should change. If they refuse to change, its up to the group to find a way to circumnavigate the person

IMO as always

Big Crunch

As a contributor, I do not expect and would not accept monetary incentives for working on this project. A bottle of fancy beer from your particular locality might be interesting, but that's even stretching it a bit.

Why do I work on TMW? Because I like to. If I don't have time for it, I drop out a while and work on it later.

Making money on OSS projects is hard. Having tried to do this before, I'd recommend that any donations taken go to cover infrastructure costs only. People bicker about money, and that can easily tear a community apart.

Speaking of fractured communities(hey this IS the off-topic forum), this one doesn't appear to be doing so well. This isn't due to any personal lust for power or anything like that(sorry DarkWater), but simple personality conflicts in a group of people that are generally not used to dealing with.. well.. people. Face it, Programmers and Sysadmins tend to have lousy social skills.

The dev team generally works well together. Many devs don't even want to deal with the users, it's their personal hobby and to heck with any drama... which is a good attitude to have. If you want to talk to the development team about bugs/issues/anything technical, please hop on IRC, use mantis, or the forums. My experience is that it's a fairly open process, and there is good reasoning behind most decisions made.

There is, however, a LARGE gulf between the GHP and the users. Even some of the developers have trouble getting anything done when dealing with the GHP. Things are run pretty well right now, but I've noticed things worsening. Please, everyone, drop the drama and get your act together. The users need you. The developers need you. If you have an insufferable problem with something... talk about it, go outside and scream at a woodchuck, buy a hooker, *ANYTHING*. This internal drama llama needs to die, or TMW will suffer.

MadCamel wrote: I'd recommend that any donations taken go to cover infrastructure costs only.
[...]
If you have an insufferable problem with something... [...]buy a hooker

Now THATS a good idea what to do with donations: Finance the developer anti-frustration hooker fund!

I believe in free as in free beer, not as in freedom.

Crush wrote:

MadCamel wrote: I'd recommend that any donations taken go to cover infrastructure costs only.
[...]
If you have an insufferable problem with something... [...]buy a hooker

Now THATS a good idea what to do with donations: Finance the developer anti-frustration hooker fund!

Ooh, add in video material of the stuff and you're hitting a potentially lucrative adult entertainment niché to raise funds for the project.

Is nerdsbanginghookers.com still available?

Crush wrote:Is nerdsbanginghookers.com still available?

Yes

That's a really good idea.

Rotonen wrote:A common way is to put together a foundation to hold the intellectual property (mostly: logo, name) of your project. If you do it correctly, you can receive donations tax free (and in some tax systems the donations companies make for you are tax deductible). Then the aforementioned foundation can give money to whatever their rules allow (mostly: development of the said project). They can even legally hire people.

Apart from that it'd be nice to see manasource register for the next Google Summer of Code. Unfortunately they do not accept pixel art as a worthy subject for that.

Collecting 30k+ (USD/EUR) and hiring one professional pixel artist for a year would indeed be a tempting idea given the capital. Also for pixel art aspirants giving 1k-2k (USD/EUR) per major assignment (set of spritesets, tileset) would boost contribution.

Daydreaming is fun, isn't it?

To answer the actual topic line of this conversation: in open source you make money on services, not content or products.

Yes, I agree with what you've said. Expert people in that matter give good ideas. Collecting 30k+ can help them a lot of things. Anyway, daydreaming can be your pastime.