The Mana World Forums

at crush not everyone has coding and scripting skills i also find your post disgusting

bell chick wrote:at crush not everyone has coding and scripting skills i also find your post disgusting

The point is that it's not reasonable for such people to make demands on those of us people who do.

There are *lots* of ideas that I (and other developers) have planned to make the game better, but don't have the time to implement. I still can't even give a time frame for tmwa-adventures ...

o11c wrote:

bell chick wrote:at crush not everyone has coding and scripting skills i also find your post disgusting

The point is that it's not reasonable for such people to make demands on those of us people who do.

not demands but ideas. many wont to contribute something but dont have coding skills. so they find ideas as thats all they can do. (i also count myself in this group which is why i speak out)

bell chick wrote:not demands but ideas. many wont to contribute something but dont have coding skills. so they find ideas as thats all they can do. (i also count myself in this group which is why i speak out)

Which is welcome, helpful and needed. But I think Crush wasn't addressing that, but rather the kind of people who desgin large and detailed concepts and then expect 'the devs' to implement them, and who get huffy if we don't.

Beside, coding skills isn't the only thing someone can contribute with, there's also graphics and music, playtesting on the testserver, and as you already pointed out, giving feedback.

I may not have time and/or mood to contribute to this project after I find a job. But at least I managed to spare some time today to implement the miteyo idea posted by Ledmitz (which is rather simple to implement).

It can detect players that get betsanced and/or plughed. I think miteyo can't be used to detect #asorm and #anwiltyp, which is intend to not detect by other players.

I may commit more spell changes suggested by Ledmitz if I can spare more time and have the mood in the future.

Everyone is free to test and give feedback, and the dev team of TMW is free to merge it into the master branch. My work is currently in the following repo:

https://github.com/qiuhw/tmwa-server-da ... pand_magic

Regards!

Woha,

I can see what Crush means and I stand by what he says. However i think that thinker bell also has a fair point.

In the best of worlds there would be a nice tie between the developers and the players.

Imo the best possible way of a project, and especially a big one like this, is where the developer posts his ideas, gets feedback from the community and the go-ahead from lead developers.

So for this case, Ledmitz listed loads of ideas for spells and told his intent to try and work on it. Seasoned developers gave imput, community gives imput.

The community imput is for Ledmitz to decide on imo since he is doing the actual work. Ledmitz works then should be reviewed with someone that has been a developer for a while who might have a better eye for what is suitable and doable.

But community input is really good, it serves two man purposes imo. Firstly and maybe most importantly it gives the one working encouragement to see that his work is appreciated and that people care, secondly it might spawn some great idea that the developer has not realized himself.

Then we have the GHP that decides what goes into the game, that have an overview of the game as a whole.

Those are just my thought of how the process should work and be understood.

I really hope this project goes well, more wizardry and dark magic would be brilliant!

I commit another change, which makes "#itenplz happily" ignore servant you summoned, but "#itenplz" behaviours just as before.
The word happily is choose with no good think, you may suggest better words, and also feedback about other aspects is appreatiated.

This commit requires server code changes, and also there's a bug in it.

First the server code change: Then the bug is that although "itenplz happily" will not affect the servant you summon, it will still produce partical effects on them. There's one way to fix this, that is make another builtin magic function available that will compare if the target is the servant of the victim. I don't dive to see how builtin functions return values, so I choose to change the aggravate function to accept four arguments instead. I may implement it the other way, and also I need feedback from o11c since server code is supposed to change.

By the way, I'd want to ask why we don't directly put magic.conf in the repo but instead we put magic.conf.template? I know that someone may not want the others to know the spell without play the game, but we already have a wiki page list all spells, so it's really not intend to be secret, and the use of magic.conf.template just add steps when you want to modify it.

Regards!

I really hope it's clear to all now that I never complained or demanded anything, but rather tried to initiate dialogue on the current magic system and as to what it's future will be. By the looks of things, I have succeeded and that is not to give credit to myself but to those that have worked on them and so soon, I might add.
I think everyone can agree that we owe thanks to tsukinokage, who seems to not be an active developer here, but a player... ? As far as the code goes, I am totally lost, but see some familiar terms. Maybe I can still cut/paste a new function, but figuring out a bug is above my meager abilities.
As for what I have done... you can you can browse my very humble new website, which is nothing but an update host containing all client-data plus my additions (sound effects). I have not yet finished editing my Credits.txt and need to copy the relevant copyrights as well, which is why I have not posted it publicly yet, but feel free to give feedback on it in it's unfinished state.

For only the altered and added files you can download here:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/40023373/SFX-T ... -02-25.zip

To browse/download the entire client data, in it's zippped update state you can go here:
http://warworld.noads.biz/

Rather than that, I suggest actually testing the sounds in the game. You can do that by simply running a command in linux or copying your ManaPlus shortcut, and changing the command to this: Notes: flar and frillyar wil change as there is not actually a reference to fire anywhere, but flar sound might be a good fireball instead. Demon Spirits will probably change to all whispers. Ingrav(s) are not to my liking and are a good example of how listening to too much feedback can actually hinder the final product. I plan on changing these closer to my original ideas. Astral sound is sporatic. It actually works correct, but the animations somehow changed after an update, i think, and since the sound plays with the animation, I've noticed that there are 2 shades of blue that seem to have been reversed. This sound is only heard when casting magic onto another or during summoning now. Some maps do not allow combat sounds. Be away from towns when testing.

After I complete the update site (hopefully today/tomorrow. I still need to research the sources in some cases), I'll take a look into a few of the things that others mentioned I may be capable of doing here. Most likely parum to start, but I'll check out the other one's mentioned too. Hopefully I will be able to post a proper thread on my sfx updates by then too.

I have spent hours on this game, but most all have not been able to experience it yet, but that is about to change.

tsukinokage wrote: <snip>

I haven't looked at the patch yet, but please make sure you're working off the 'test' branch, not 'master'.

It would be better to add a new function to magic-expr.cpp (which is functions that return a value) rather than changing the signature in magic.stmt.cpp (top-level operations, that don't return a value).
The function should be general ("get master id") and the check against actual player id should be done in the magic script.

tsukinokage wrote: By the way, I'd want to ask why we don't directly put magic.conf in the repo but instead we put magic.conf.template?

When I rewrite the magic system, that part will go away. I *think* I've completed all the prior steps for that ... once I'm done testing/debugging the current changes, I expect to work on that.

Note specifically that the hitchhiker's guide answers are secret (not on the wiki) and are also stored in magic.conf (they will be stored separately after the change).

Sure would be nice to see a spell that would cause havoc to the Banshee Bow users similar to the anti-magic spells they can cast on mages. Maybe a spell that creates lots of wind so the arrows miss 90% of their intended target for 30 seconds or something. And maybe the bow backfires a percentage too, doing damage to the wielder.

LordDune wrote:Sure would be nice to see a spell that would cause havoc to the Banshee Bow users similar to the anti-magic spells they can cast on mages. Maybe a spell that creates lots of wind so the arrows miss 90% of their intended target for 30 seconds or something. And maybe the bow backfires a percentage too, doing damage to the wielder.

imo all that is not necessary

bell chick wrote:

LordDune wrote:Sure would be nice to see a spell that would cause havoc to the Banshee Bow users similar to the anti-magic spells they can cast on mages. Maybe a spell that creates lots of wind so the arrows miss 90% of their intended target for 30 seconds or something. And maybe the bow backfires a percentage too, doing damage to the wielder.

imo all that is not necessary

You're obviously an archer.

LordDune wrote:

bell chick wrote:

LordDune wrote:Sure would be nice to see a spell that would cause havoc to the Banshee Bow users similar to the anti-magic spells they can cast on mages. Maybe a spell that creates lots of wind so the arrows miss 90% of their intended target for 30 seconds or something. And maybe the bow backfires a percentage too, doing damage to the wielder.

imo all that is not necessary

You're obviously an archer.

nope a warrior

It sounds like something to consider to me, actually. I started working on this before the Illia rewards came out, so where before I was mostly balancing light mages against dark mages and trying to find a decent power level (no over 9000 jokes or you'll be banned maybe )... now, there is the consideration of how to compensate against other classes with their new crit heavy equipment.

I am considering something similar to the curses in Diablo 2, actually - since light mages already have spells to boost others, dark mages should realistically have spells to hinder enemies. Of course, there are many ways to do that, but a lot of things depend on how much status effects can affect mobs. I should be able to test this again fairly soon anyway.

Ledmitz: expect a PM shortly .

edit: @tsukinokage: Just saw your post from a page ago, regarding enabling magic to level 5. You are right that flar becoming free is not a big problem, and in fact I don't intend to change anything about how that will work. The real problem there, is other spells, such as ingrav, having the same effect at higher levels. There is no way that lightning being free will be anything short of unfair, as well as leaving little point for mages to collect iron ore at all once they are at a high enough magic level. This is why I think it best to add the magic levels as they are made - as well, I don't believe magic exp is cumulative when levelling. I could be wrong.. but even if you have 400% experience, that will still only level you to the start of the next level as far as I know. If anyone knows better, feel free to correct me.

Honestly, I'm far from being fluent with the magic scripting language, but pattern recognition has let me understand enough to do just about any magic spell idea that's come to mind so far. My only real limits, are that I'm NOT fluent with the language, and that I am limited to the functions available, with no idea how to add different ones. For example: You can set area of effect spells with a rectangular area, or rbox, of range. I believe you may also specify a circular effect using radius. Yet, if you want to cast a spell that only hits a cone shaped area in front of the player, you would possibly need to play around with the existing available "shapes" to get the desired effect. This is of course harder to test when you don't have graphics made for such a spell already .

mistergrey wrote:It sounds like something to consider to me, actually. I started working on this before the Illia rewards came out, so where before I was mostly balancing light mages against dark mages and trying to find a decent power level (no over 9000 jokes or you'll be banned maybe )... now, there is the consideration of how to compensate against other classes with their new crit heavy equipment.

I am considering something similar to the curses in Diablo 2, actually - since light mages already have spells to boost others, dark mages should realistically have spells to hinder enemies. Of course, there are many ways to do that, but a lot of things depend on how much status effects can affect mobs. I should be able to test this again fairly soon anyway.

Ledmitz: expect a PM shortly .

issue i have is even though warriors and archers do a lot of crits now mages still do the most damage. all it did is bring the other 2 classes a little closer and any spell made to balance this more in the mages favoir again would make them gods as compared to archers and warriors