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Nard wrote:we are under

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This is the wrong forum, the topic has nothing to do with development.

I made this thread in Player Talk. Crush moved it here. Unlike o11c, Crush actually is a Forum Admin, so while I am puzzled by his choice of moving the topic, I also respect his decision to do it.

I am not in TMWC or any group except as a player. I may not like platyna but if you take a unilateral approach and ban someone when the majority of people who respond to your question with no, to me that is wrong. This game (and forum) should not be run by the decision making power of one person. After all, with the move wasn't that one of the main points? I was under the impression that Platyna was sole decision maker before, and when o11c bans her from forums just for being annoying, that makes you look just as bad. I thought with the move this game would turn more into a democracy than before, and with this action, I don't see a positive difference. We need leaders with good people skills, who can work as a team in decision making, and I don't see that when one person bans another instead of it being a team decision.

Crazyk8e wrote:bans her from forums just for being annoying

Try "for breaking every single rule except the one about posting sexually explicit material" (though admittedly her only use of bots was after the ban).

.:WildX:. wrote:

o11c wrote:

Big Crunch wrote:Ban evasion, regardless of the 'validity' of the ban is an entirely separate offense and will be judged as such with swift and severe consequences.

This.

Ban evasion is the ONE thing that is UNIVERSALLY agreed on as a bannable offense in all the internet, and the fact that one evades a ban usually ends up proving the original ban justified anyway.

Did you give an unjust ban so you could ban Platyna for evading the unjust ban? Did you just commit banception?

They did this to me once so I could believe it.

At this point I feel that the ban was not unreasonable. At this point the flooding of topics related to platyna and her situation is disruptive to development. At this point it is harassing this project and its team leaders and at this point she should be ban. She may have "been a reasonable host" but she is no longer the host and she is no longer being reasonable. DDOSing a bot on a development channel that helps with notes and production is not acceptable and I only have reason to believe it was her but I have no doubts. So If I must grab my torch and pitchfork to defend this project I will. This topic should not exsist. Its not part of development its anti productive and disruptive. Platyna you are being anti-productive and disruptive. You claim to care about this project but I see no efforts of you trying to help this project. The only thing I see you offering is hosting. It is apparent that we don't need your services. If you want to help show us what you have to offer.

The exercise of power does not equal the abuse of power.
this was long overdue and well done, I might add repeating yourself does not make it better, just more tedious to read.

I think that what o11c did was wrong, because decision made was his and his alone, it is one thing if it was a team decision, but in this instance I do not see any evidence of that. No matter my views on Platyna, it is the principle of things that get to me more.

And surely she is still "winning" the more attention is paid to the subject?

I heard an interesting opinion about this yesterday... something like this:

"The TMWC offers this forum to players as a communication platform between players or players-devs, players-GMs, etc. and therefore it's up to the TMWC to throw out a person who brings trouble."
(No this was not by o11c)

I think we can all agree that Platyna indeed brings trouble.

Personally I thought about this and changed my mind a little bit.
I do see a ban reason... yet I think this should have been a decision made by the whole TMWC.

I'm still not sure about it... and wondering what other people think about this.

Some people keep trying to steer this topic to whether the ban had merit, or whether Platyna's further actions make a ban justified. If you want to keep arguing that, please go make your own topic about that.

That's not why I made this thread. That's not the topic.

This is about whether it was appropriate or acceptable for o11c, as programming lead, to make this ban, in the face of clear TMWC and advisor opposition, and without the ban going through the appropriate channels of the Forum Admins or GM team.

If the TMWC wants to change the rules, to make bannings for "anything that causes disruptions" or for "any reason, or no reason at all", because all of TMW (forums and game) is "a service from the TMWC to the gaming community, provided at their sole discretion, to whomever they wish", then maybe they should change the rules to clearly say so. Rulings should still come from the Forum Admins or the GM team, and not the programming lead, unless the TMWC decides to change that too. In any case, the rest of us should be kept in the loop of what the new order and new rules are, if there are in fact to be any major changes such as this. So far, this appears to be a serious but isolated incident, however, the fact that no one from the TMWC Forum Admin or GM teams is providing any official response on the very public banning of a famous TMW persona ex-admin looks to be a little odd. Common offenders get a better GM / Forum Admin response to their infractions in Court House than Platyna has gotten so far regarding her ban from the programming lead.

At first for those who didn't know there is a difference between in-game rules and forum rules / moderation guidelines.

Let's check this:
Forum moderation guidelines

Crush wrote:Loose moderation forums are those mainly relevant for the player community. We are all here to have fun, so moderation is pretty lax here. Loose moderation forums are:

• Feedback
• Off Topic
• Player Talk
• Market Place

Arguments, even heated ones, are allowed here. Even posting controversial postings for fun (trolling) is permitted here as long as it doesn't turn into severe spamming. Insults will only be removed and punished when someone complains about them using the button below each post. Posting of illegal or NSFW content is of course forbidden and will be severely punished on sight. We also reserve the right to move individual postings or whole threads around when we believe that they fit better elsewhere.

The bold marked part is the interesting one.
I think it's a matter of opinion whether Platyna's actions are considered trolling or spamming or not.
Again I think it's up to the TMWC to decide that and what is the best solution... personally I'd probably understand any decision they make in this case as long as it's from the team.

@blackrazor: sorry, but this is too much related to the original reason why you created this thread.
I think a forum moderator will split the topic if necessary - IMO it's bad for the overview and we have enough of these stupid threads already.
But well... that's out of my business though

Cassy wrote:I heard an interesting opinion about this yesterday... something like this:

"The TMWC offers this forum to players as a communication platform between players or players-devs, players-GMs, etc. and therefore it's up to the TMWC to throw out a person who brings trouble."
(No this was not by o11c)

I think we can all agree that Platyna indeed brings trouble.
[...]

I think we can all agree that o11c indeed brings trouble.
but:
(unsaid) Axiom: o11c is always fair and right. his opinion is more important than any other in this project so he is allowed to do whatever he wants, even if every one in TMWc ias against it.

Please also note, that Platyna is this forum creator, and had to fight to create it so that "community" could give it's opinion. The only wise and fair decision in this affair was crush's, when he decided to create the flamewar topic. All polemic topics should be moved to it.
Now, Cassy, you should closely look to past GM polls, you would see that Platynas post was surely no more out of topic than many others. You should also have a look to Platyna's posts, when she was in charge of this forum, it would help you to have a fair opinion about her real behaviour. It may change to a more contrasted one.

oh but maybe I bring trouble....

Cassy wrote: Again I think it's up to the TMWC to decide that and what is the best solution... personally I'd probably understand any decision they make in this case as long as it's from the team.

Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. If Freeyorp and Crush as Forum Admins had made this ban, and the GM Team agreed to it as the best or necessary course of action, so basically a TMWC Team decision, then while I may have still had personal dubious feelings about it, I would have respected it and kept my mouth (or fingers) shut.

It's like when o11c turned some things upside-down with his serversoft changes, I had dubious opinions on the way it was done, but I didn't go on and on about it, because it was o11c's area of authority as programming lead, and so I still felt I had to respect that.

That's not the case here.

Nard wrote:

Cassy wrote:I think we can all agree that Platyna indeed brings trouble.

I think we can all agree that o11c indeed brings trouble.

I was talking about Platyna, not o11c
Please don't distract from her again...

(besides I already said 2-3 times that I wouldn't agree with a single person making such a decision)

Nard wrote: Please also note, that Platyna is this forum creator, and had to fight to create it so that "community" could give it's opinion. The only wise and fair decision in this affair was crush's, when he decided to create the flamewar topic. All polemic topics should be moved to it.

I have no idea what Platyna's past has to do with this topic...

Nard wrote:Now, Cassy, you should closely look to past GM polls, you would see that Platynas post was surely no more out of topic than many others. You should also have a look to Platyna's posts, when she was in charge of this forum, it would help you to have a fair opinion about her real behaviour. It may change to a more contrasted one.

I should mention that although I'm still new compared to others I already read nearly every single thread in this forum.
So I know Platyna's posts in the past and in the present very well.

Platyna did a lot of good things, there's no doubt about it, but your quote surely is not (completely) right as she always had moments when the way she talked to people was very disrespectful and offensive (which is btw the reason *I* am happy that she is gone and I don't have to work with (or furthermore *under*) her... you'd probably never see any contribution by me).
Also I think her comment on Katie's GM was half-off-topic but that's not the point: this was not her only post, you know that as well as I do, and many of her other posts are just... well... bulls*** that is more trolling than something that makes sense.

Also:

Sanity wrote:

Cassy wrote: Only target I can imagine is provocation and hurting TMWs image.

Platyna wrote: Well, not TMW image but so called "TMWC" image.

Do you realize that you've just stated, in plain text, that your sole mission here is to willingly hurt the public image of a group of people in charge of this forum, and you're basically as fair of a game to ban right now as any spammer ?

Source

This one is my favorite... it's about time to quote it again.

@blackrazor: Yeah, I agree with you.

Guys, i,ve come to the* conclusion:
god=love

live with it or die @)

ps. you have no idea whatsoever(except love), i tell you, watch your mind

REQ: Mod: Please move this to offtopic, lock it do whatever needs to be done to make this a sane thread (really Enga??) ? Any person adressed by OP can reopen and answer (or am i wrong there?).
People outside tmwc already added their views to an extent that allows to understand which aspects different people would light to highlight in this topic.
--Chay