The Mana World Forums

Kill3rZ wrote:You see? It's not that hard to have foreign developers after all...

Well, that was fun!

I disagree, it took me 5 times as long to use Google Translate and then a few of the comments over a sentience long translated like garbage. Now do that for a full technical explanation of code and see what happens. Translate it with one translator and decode with a different one and see what happens also. Not pretty.

I differ, this took me 5 times as a lot of time to use Google Traducen and then some of the comments on a sentience a lot of time translated as the garbage. Now make this for a technical explanation full of the code and to see what it spends. Translate it with a translator and decipher with the different one and to see what it spends also. Not enough.

case and point

Hi Cecil, and thanks for clarifying the situation. The major issue with irony, is that it's sometimes incomprehensible when it's written (at least, use a smiley, it could help). As i said before, i've read such kind of things on this very forum, so i am a bit suspicious.

Regarding Rule #5 problem :
I don't see any easy solution. Maybe we should compare the other international MMORPGs chat system, and see what is fair and what is not.

I used to play "Hellgate : London" in multiplayer (i know, this game failed a few month ago) : there was a channel system for each language. But actually people could speak in the main channel in any language, without any rule (not the best way to be understood, indeed). Same thing in "Cabale Online". On those game the rule seems to be : speak english if you want to be understood, or if someone ask you to. Else, do whatever you want, and report any wrong behaviour.
I played "Discovery mod" for Freelancer (SF space shooter) : everybody speak english, and it seems that no one complains. The rule was : speak english in public chat system (by public it means : visible in the whole ingame world). It proves that it could work, and i think i know the reason why : there were strict "RolePlaying" rules. Those rules were clearly explicited in this wiki. Also, in Discovery Freelancer, communication was very important because there were factions, and if you didn't communicate with the others you were simply destroyed, so beeing able to speak english was crucial.

Two years ago, I started to play The Mana World. There were no rules on language in game (or at least it was not visible), no spam autobans, only 10-20 posts in the court house, no recolorable item, the best weapon was scythe (nice bug with fast attack), and Sugarcorgit, Doorsman, MK, Forge, QOAL, Black Don, etc... all the nice players were already there. It was messy, but very fun.
Now there are GMs, rules, it's much more organized, some nice players left, some nice players came, and some people are reporting each other in the court house. But it's still fun, and it's still very messy.
I believe (and i may be wrong) that's somewhere we missed the RolePlaying aspect of the game. I mean, this game is not just a race to get the ultimate item (that's why some people left). We are playing a role, that's not real, that's a game. Rules aren't there to punish people, but enhance the immersive atmosphere ingame. Also, those are TMW rules here. I know i'm comparing what's not comparable, but please just take a look and see the difference : 6 rules, no explanations, no explicited sanctions. So many ways to circumvent it.

Anyway in TMW, the rule #5 is not crystal clear. It needs much more details on what is a public chat/place. But IMO it's not very efficient. I can insult someone in french, by using the whisper system. If i'm reported in the court house, GM will have to translate it anyway.
The good question is : why the "all language allowed" system could work in other games, and not in TMW? Or in another way, why the "one language allowed" system seems not to be accepted by a big part of the TMW community?

Please note :
- i'm not against #5 rule, not against GMs, and not against recolorable item ( ), i'm just pointing out some stuff that, in my opinion, could be modified. I should have posted it in suggestions/feedback, but this topic was already created in this purpose.
- i lol'ed when i saw the previous messages, i would have added "Mon Brave" in the Parisian translation. Nice conversation indeed

This topic has already been discussed too many times...

And I've already made some kind of definition of the rule earlier:

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... lic#p52007


It comes down to speaking English if other people are around who wouldn't understand you when you don't speak English. However, you can ask them if they mind. If they don't: Speak whatever language you want.

And if you directly translate into English what you have been writing in another language, there is no problem, either.

Cooperative people who don't speak English at all won't get banned.

And I'd personally encourage good English-speakers to help others from their country who don't understand English!

...

use your common sense....
This is a worldwide game and we should try to understand each other as well as possible. And English is the best means to do so, since (believe me or not) most people who have a computer do speak English - at least a bit.

Katze, thanks for your answer.
Yeah it's true, this subject has been discussed so many times. And, so many times, people seems not to accept it.
I actually agree with your point of view except this sentence (but i'm not here to act like a troll about that ) :

most people who have a computer do speak English - at least a bit

The link you gave explains why this rule is necessary, and in what case it applies. That's what i expected.
But it's just not visible, that's inside an old 6 pages "player talk" topic! On the TMW wiki, in the Court House : there is NOTHING about it (i've only done a research with the word "rules" in the wiki, there's absolutely nothing).
You can't ask people to follow the rules, if they have to search on the forum to get informations on it (especialy if they are ignorant geeks like me).

Perhaps there is a lack of informations on this rule, and, in general, on TMW rules. Else, why are GMs sometimes obliged to take decisions, for exemple, on the scammers issue? Giving them ingame is good, but sending people on a special page dedicated to rules would be better.

That's what i wanted to say in my previous post. Thanks again.

Katze: the question isn't about what the rule says. The rule itself is fairly clear. The question is whether it is a good rule.

I think the rule is good as long as it is used the way I described it...

Katze wrote:It comes down to speaking English if other people are around who wouldn't understand you when you don't speak English. However, you can ask them if they mind. If they don't: Speak whatever language you want.

I agree that if the rule is used this way it would be ok.

But a lot of the people who complain about non-English do it only because of the rule. At the beginning I warned everyone who talked Spanish, and told them to not speak it, even though I'm Spanish and I wouldn't bother at all.

I think that applying the rule only for the cases where other people get bothered (what you described) is just part of the netiquette, it's normal to avoid bothering other people, no matter if it's because they speak other language or because any other thing. Having a dedicated rule just for language banning is misleading, as if it was done for a different purpose other than to avoid disturbing other people.

I think the rule is good as long as it is used the way I described it...

I suggest for rule #5 to be changed into something like "The common language in this world is English, you can talk other languages but only as long as other people don't mind". So that the usage you described is indeed the one that people understand. Current rule is misleading and is not describing the actual intention.

English, a GOD's gift ?
Case finally solved, here http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 607#p69607

~ GOD -> English -> QUEEN : well done Inspector, have another beer !