The Mana World Forums

thedarkfinder wrote:

Black Don wrote: The three people banned were sitting the whole time and did not drop or pick up 1 arrow. Thus we were banned for another reason. I was told this reason and the mystery why a second GM had to ban us. If we were banned for the drop party stuff Del could of done that herself with out it looking like a conflict of interest. No one wants to discuses the original reason for the ban with me cause it is messy and the paste bin of the full conversation shows it to be also an unfounded allegation.

The bottom line, a player asked you to stop. You did not, that makes you jerks. A gm asked you to stop, you did not, that makes you disruptive. Booting you was the only real option. All the gms have is hammers, the only thing they see is nails. You did your best to look like a nail. Sorry you got hit. The gms need a time out room. Where people that do this can be taken and talked to. I think it is called the botcheck room. Why it was not used is just a mystery.

No one asked me to stop "egging on". And I have no control over other people if they continue dropping after being asked. As for you other comments please pull quotes to back them up from the past bin file of what happened. Like when did a GM ask me to stop? And since when did I personally say anything that was supportive of the drop party? I made comments on peoples actions and reactions. You make a lot of accusations yet have yet to back them up. Please do. Just to remind you a lot of people have all ready tried to take what I said out of context and have failed but you are free to try right here if you like.

In conclusion I would like to say rules are in place to keep GM's honest if the GM's don't follow those rules and Ban who ever they want when ever they want there are consequences as we have seen here. I don't think honesty is to much to ask for from some one put into a position of trust.

Platyna wrote:It was a metaphore. Picking arrows, dropping arrows, whathever.

Regards.

I wold respectfully ask that anyone not use metaphor or any other creative writing techniques, that may give the illusion of first hand knowledge of what transpired, when you were not present at the time of the incident.

Thank You

Goku wrote:There you go.. you weren't even banned, and when did I say you lied? I was talking about the people who were actually involved in the case..

"lol they are fail GM's" <- Is that something cool to say nowadays? Fail GM's? Wtf? Oh you're a badass..

Keep soaking in the drama.

i was a witness i was there throughout the whole thing, and yes i am stating the fact what they are, i will never have respect for them 2 as for the other 2 GM's theres more chances.

Rotonen wrote:

Booth wrote:

Goku wrote:Shame you have to result in name calling, but hey all I see in your posts anyway are

"well i don't care they abused their power"
"well i don't care I don't like them"
"well i don't care it was better back in the day"
"well i don't care i love platyna"
"well i don't care lmao i'm cool lol f u"

Not direct quotes, but close enough you get the jist..

eDrama, a drug to some.. live above the influence!

shame because you are noob and try to talk about someone that you know nothing about? and they did abuse thier power i've said it many times now and i still continue to say it, also call them fail GM's, Platyna kept this game sane still but yet not going overboard like they did.

This thread is not about the two of you. Don't let your overheat get to you.

Also, Booth, apart from the one slip-up with the ban trigger, what else did these two do?

(We also know of high frequency events and we're going to tone it down a bit.)

well, for Delasia messaging threatening to ban for one. Please tell me you see the same doorsman he was around 8 months ago? cause if you think so then your definately lieing, he shows his power these days instead of laying back and still doing the justice he needs to.

Rotonen wrote:[quote="Booth..

This thread is not about the two of you. Don't let your overheat get to you.

Also, Booth, apart from the one slip-up with the ban trigger, what else did these two do?

(We also know of high frequency events and we're going to tone it down a bit.)

well, for Delasia messaging threatening to ban for one. Please tell me you see the same doorsman he was around 8 months ago? cause if you think so then your definately lieing, he shows his power these days instead of laying back and still doing the justice he needs to.

Booth wrote:well, for Delasia messaging threatening to ban for one. Please tell me you see the same doorsman he was around 8 months ago? cause if you think so then your definately lieing, he shows his power these days instead of laying back and still doing the justice he needs to.

For my eyes, based on your description, that is more like: "You're doing something stupid. Would you mind stopping? I will enforce my view on this with a ban if you do not cooperate."

Well, i guess we all have our own views about it but read the other thread i suggested a solution even though i know everyone might not agree.

Doulos wrote:

jaxad0127 wrote:<snip>http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/GM_Guidelines

Yes it's on the wiki, but you can view the edit history.

Hey. Thanks, Jax. Will give it a look-see. I appreciate this.

At the risk of being seen as "stirring up more trouble", I'd like to say just a few short thoughts on this topic.

We know there's been some unrest lately. And I suggest that a fully detailed GM Guideline and Code of Conduct be determined and adopted. This way the GMs will know what is expected of them from the "powers that be", and the players will know what is and isn't within their jurisdiction.

GM activity can be evaluated based on a detailed guideline more easily than on an unfinished document that is little different from the rules players read when starting the game. How often a GM can host a spawn party, for example. This way GMs can have a sense of security that they're not taking advantage of their powers, and will not be accused of having done so by players/developers.

Players can know what to expect from a GM. An example might be: an argument between two players. GMs would be told ahead of time whether a dispute is considered part of "role playing", and to be left alone, or that a GM step in and arbitrate. This is just an example, and not my main point. The actual bits and pieces of Guideline/Code of Conduct should be a different thread.

I think it would be best to get such documentation from other games (if they share them), and not try to brain storm a whole new one ourselves.

Eliminating all forms of uncertainty -- for the GMs, for the Players, for the Devs -- will reduce any future stress/tension and help players to get on with the game, and let GMs know what they can/can't do.

The problem is that every time somebody tries to start a thread about such a "code of conduct" it turns into a flaming troll war.

For that matter most things relating to The Mana World turn into a flaming troll war at some point.

Hmm. So, failure in the past necessitates failure today, is what you're arguing?

Please post links to the specific threads. It will make interesting reading, no doubt.

Maybe we can see who posted the biggest flames in the past ... and keep them out of today's discussion, mm?

Over to you, ink.

Doulos wrote:And I suggest that a fully detailed GM Guide and Code of Conduct be determined and adopted. This way the GMs will know what is expected of them from the "powers that be", and the players will know what is and isn't within their jurisdiction.
[..]
Eliminating all forms of uncertainty -- for the GMs, for the Players, for the Devs -- will reduce any future stress/tension and help players to get on with the game, and let GMs know what they can/can't do.

+1000. We definitely need something much more detailed about rules, in one article. For the moment, if we want to have further information on rules, we have to look for it in the forums using the search panel.

The Brao wrote:

Doulos wrote:And I suggest that a fully detailed GM Guide and Code of Conduct be determined and adopted. This way the GMs will know what is expected of them from the "powers that be", and the players will know what is and isn't within their jurisdiction.
[..]
Eliminating all forms of uncertainty -- for the GMs, for the Players, for the Devs -- will reduce any future stress/tension and help players to get on with the game, and let GMs know what they can/can't do.

+1000. We definitely need something much more detailed about rules, in one article. For the moment, if we want to have further information on rules, we have to look for it in the forums using the search panel.

-10000

If you need a guide, you are not supposed to be a GM at all.



Regards.

When there is more than one GM they should act in unison and this requires a clear guideline how to act in which situation.

If you need a guide, you are not supposed to be a GM at all.

To some extent you are correct. If a person is made GM they should already have the experience needed to handle issues that come up. They should know what the rules are BEFORE they are made GM.

However, a guide would help get all the GM's on the same page. Speaking from my own experience administrating an popular high ranking forum I must say that moderators have to be on the same page as the administrators.

Somewhere along the way you have to have a top dog (excuse the expression) to make the rules. The moderators are then there to ensure that those rules get made. The problem with TMW, imho is that this structure is not existent.

Some of the moderators, the GM's, think they have the power of an administrator, to make rules, not just enforce them. When it comes to who the "top dog" the "alpha administrator" there is conflict. Some say you, Platyna, should be in charge, others say Bjorne. And then GM's and Dev's also step in and make and change rules.

Somewhere along the line you need one single person to be in charge and make the rules. The other empowered people, the moderators, have a lesser position. To moderate means to keep in check. So moderators should merely be enforcing the rules, not making them. And as far as that goes I think one solid rule guide would be a positive thing.

The problem I foresee is that no one will agree what to put in it. The thing is there doesn't have to be and shouldn't have to be agreement about the rules. There should be one administrator who says "These are the rules," end of discussion. The moderators, the developers, and the players don't get to argue with that person, because they are not the rule makers, they are the rule followers and rule enforcers.

That at least is my advice, based on my experience here in TMW and my own years of experience spent administrating online communities.

~By the way, I'm sure I'll catch a lot of flack for saying this, but it highlights the basic problem with this game and the current GM/rule system. Looking forward to other's thoughts.