The Mana World Forums

I really hate to see this kind of dialog! Let's all please return focus back on improving this game in every way we can. I'm not trying to be on anyone's bad or good lists here by saying this:

Trash talking, trolling, abusing each other:
Not productive.

I don't care if you all are annoyed at each other, we all have room for improvement, there's nobody here that in someone else's perceptions have not disappointed before, but we all should expect much more from each other, and do what we can to improve cooperation.

And for be it for me to make demands , but:

Platyna, you have a forum to clean up, you have the technology (literally), bans to make, threads to clean and trolls to spank (except for matt [and not in that context])... and for god's sake where have you been in game? If you didn't know this already: YOU'RE MISSED!

Delasia, I've had my concerns at some of your decisions, but while I've maintained the thought that "there should never be concerns from a GM", objectively you've been improving your approach, RETURN TO IT! DON'T DETOUR FROM THE PATH!

THE REST OF YOU:

• If you disagree with a GM decision, please try to maintain a professional dialog in your forum postings... don't pollute your case with trolling, this is the only way that change can happen. I only improve with my art when I receive positive, constructive feedback... GMs certainly can and will improve if you HELP them to improve.
• Don't be a troll (Play nice!).
• Stop feeding trolls (they'll lose interest in trolling if you do, and return to being helpful or just being).
• Research and provide feedback objectively (not just on a whim).
• Help us all improve and grow!
• Please don't consider this trolling... more or less third party frustration... I hate seeing people leave or get upset when there's so much opportunity to do otherwise.

ROOOOOAAR! (nerd angst)

MATT:

• No check boxing "[X] You Suck!" in response to this.

+1, Fother.

We all should think like this more often! Thanks for trying to bring peace...let's hope it actually happens.

+1 Fother

Well done Trunkz : you managed to override the Godwin Peak !

+1 Fother

~ IMHO STALLOS are Elite-TROLLS : please don't ban Matt and me from the forum ! ~

Uber_Kalimero wrote:

~ Off-topic : if you like SKA...

We've been off-topic for about a week now

Delasia wrote:Once again Delasia is the bad guy because SHE did what the majority of the people asked.

No you are not a bad guy. You did exactly has you should have. He did something that was disruptive. You warp him away. This is completely responsible.

When someone in the real world is disruptive, then remove that person from the scene, to restore order.


Delasia is a gm, and even though you may not like it. When she ask you to do or not to do something. Try to comply. We learned this in kindergarten, when the person in charge asks you to do something you do it.

You where acting like a jerk and a child, trunk, she gave you a time out.

IMO Delasia did exactly what she should have done.

Thank you for making the game run properly. You did really well.

Trunkz wrote:TheDarkFinder for GM! or Admin or something!! He seems to know the answer to everything and how everything should be done.. you guys are right, we don't need a GM guideline, when something happens and we need to know what should be done just ask TDF!

I would like to point out, the same day that he posted this, he logged in, spammed every forum and posted graphic images.

For the record.

Who cares this thread is old news why keep dragging it out...... It's time to start arguing about something else now.

I've been playing for around a month (or 2) now and never found Delasia anything but a good GM. There's lots of events and the game is infinitely more fun than when I played it years ago. As others have noted a warp seems a pretty reasonable way to deal with problems rather than an out and out ban.

I find these kind of threads will only continue as long as there are people using IRC PM's and whispers to abuse and upset people. But I all ready said that it comes with the territory of putting someone in a position of trust in that does not act in a trust worthy manner.

What a pokemon hooker may look like:

shes hott, LOL

As for me, GMs did what they should in this scenario. Let's look on this scenario from various points of view. Not just "I hate GMs!" or "I dislike this GM and seeking for any reason to blame GM for actions".

If you happen to administer any large server populated by many users (just as I did being an administrative staff in IRC network with thousands users some time ago), you will figure out soon that there is no matter which rules you're writing and inventing, someone will figure out "workaround" soon. Then it's possible to cause a reasonable damage and disruption to normal server operations while formally everything remains within rules. You can't write rules for all possible kinds of humans actions, this is doomed to fail.

Server staff then haves hard time. If they about to violate their own rules, they about to be blamed. If they're about to ignore condition and it persists, server would turn into a desert. Because users will leave it as useless or will get disconnected due to technical problems. Then attacker could celebrate a victory because it has almost eliminated server in question. Does someone wants to play on empty TMW server? Then you can set up your own eAthena on localhost and get what you want without eliminating all users on this one .

Good staff usually politely asks to stop doing bad things which are causing problems (trying to resolve technical issues ASAP in same time, if possible). Good people who does not haves bad purposes to harm servers will understand this, respect this and stop doing bad things causing issues. Bad people (who want to harm servers, users, etc) will rather stick to bad behaviour to cause even more damage, being happy you've confirmed that there is issues. At this point you have bad choice - you can violate own rules and keep other users of your server happy. But this will give a reasons to blame you and surely you WILL get blamed sooner or later. Or you can obey your rules. But then most users will suffer from technical problems and they will be forced to abandon your server, so while formally all fine, actually, staff in general have failed to achieve their goal and purpose. Which is to keep servers stable, running and serving for it's primary purpose (be it IRC chat or gameplay or whatever else...). Actually if you're administrative staff you can't be totally victorious in such scenario at all. No matter what you will decide, there is some loss so normal practice is to choose "least evil" resolution and take consequences. Good server staff will also prefer to keep resource up and running even if this means some personal attacks later.

In IRC in such lousy scenarios when someone manages to disrupt normal operations of many clients at once by finding bug in servers or popular clients, we're usually were in emergency conditions, trying to fix things ASAP. By both server-side countermeasures and by removing offenders, if needed - just to keep servers up and running and non-evil users able to use them without major issues. If it was not possible to fix in a timely manner and attacks continued, we had to shut down problematic feature (some IRC servers and services are fairly modular so you can shut down just failing part without shutting down whole thing, losing only some feature rather than everything). This causes users frustration but sometimes necessary to prevent complete destruction of project in total. So removing problematic magic is an option but this will make some users unhappy and dev's and GMs will be blamed for this as well .

Bottom line? As for me, semi-emergency situation has been resolved using least possible evil, even no bans, etc. Furthermore looks like affected user seems to be a known evildoer. Hence, looks like a good trouble resolution. Even if this formally violates something, that was to keep users of server happy and to maintain stability under somewhat emergency conditions (which are actually can be classified as "hacker attack using known bugs"). Saying this I can also notice that looks like root cause of this issue is not eliminated so condition can re-appear. If I was in dev's skin, I would probably temporarily shut down failing feature until it fixed to prevent further attacks. So I can understand if rain magic will be temporarily disabled in Hurnscald or even globally until it fixed.

P.S. some hint to dev's: you may also want to add very simple rule, smth like this: "if user causes clients or server stability issues or attempts to hack users or causes too much annoyance to multiple users and refuses to stop harmful actions upon staff request, administrative staff can deal with issue at their own discretion, using all available methods and actions". This does not means GMs should ban everyone who will find any bugs or issues or whatever. But this means that GMs should have "legal" option to ban those who're using in-game bugs or any other means to intentionally cause serious troubles or annoyances to many users at once. Causing issues to multiple clients at once is evil and should not be tolerated if this is a regular practice rather than unintentional behaviour.

why are you bringing this back up...