The Mana World Forums

You said "Law enforcement should be kept to deal with just a few cases most players know about.". And that's what I responded to with my first sentence.

You can respond to GM actions. Just because you often have to do it in a different forum doesn't mean you're prevented from doing so. Do you complain about police actions in a court of law? Or do you talk about it in public forums and write to the people who make the laws? The former is the equivalent of the Court House forum, the latter is more like Player Talk.

Yes, you can challenge police actions in courthouses. It happens all the time in most countries i know of. You can also protest on public forums (equivalent to player talk), but those protests are less effective if you don't have an independent court system. In fact police actions must be validated on courthouses, by judges.

Do you yourself tell the police what they should and shouldn't do? Or do you let the powers that be say what they should and shouldn't do? (Assuming you aren't one of the powers that be where you live).

Courthouses monitor police work in most (if not all) democratic countries. That idea of separating powers comes from both the french revolution and american independence war. The idea is not having ALL the power in the same hands

GMs shouldn't work for the whims of players, but enforce the rules as set by the server administration. That role will become more defined and kept to by the GMs. If you don't like the rules, you can go play elsewhere.

In this paragraph you've portrayed yourself. GM's should do what they want, when they want and there should be no complaints about it. Of course you can talk about it, but you won't be listened to. Your analogy is also incorrect, let me tell you why:

In any modern political system, people that make the rules are not the same ones that enforce them. You've mentioned the police. The police don't make the laws, the parliament does. And parliament members are elected. Legislative chamber makes the law, judges choose how it must be applied, policemen finally take action.

So, you tell me that GM's must decide the laws, judge, and apply them. All the power in their hands. It sounds to me like some kind of dictatorship, to continue with your analogy. Maybe I can't make you understand the importance of public control on law making and enforcement. But it is important.

If all the power is in the same hands, there will be abuses. There won't be any way to prevent them. It won't matter at all if the ones chosen to be the legislator-judge-police power are reasonable people.

Macias_P wrote:

You said "Law enforcement should be kept to deal with just a few cases most players know about.". And that's what I responded to with my first sentence.

You can respond to GM actions. Just because you often have to do it in a different forum doesn't mean you're prevented from doing so. Do you complain about police actions in a court of law? Or do you talk about it in public forums and write to the people who make the laws? The former is the equivalent of the Court House forum, the latter is more like Player Talk.

Yes, you can challenge police actions in courthouses. It happens all the time in most countries i know of. You can also protest on public forums (equivalent to player talk), but those protests are less effective if you don't have an independent court system. In fact police actions must be validated on courthouses, by judges.

So, you take each police officer to court for anything they do?

Macias_P wrote:

Do you yourself tell the police what they should and shouldn't do? Or do you let the powers that be say what they should and shouldn't do? (Assuming you aren't one of the powers that be where you live).

Courthouses monitor police work in most (if not all) democratic countries. That idea of separating powers comes from both the french revolution and american independence war. The idea is not having ALL the power in the same hands

GMs shouldn't work for the whims of players, but enforce the rules as set by the server administration. That role will become more defined and kept to by the GMs. If you don't like the rules, you can go play elsewhere.

In this paragraph you've portrayed yourself. GM's should do what they want, when they want and there should be no complaints about it. Of course you can talk about it, but you won't be listened to. Your analogy is also incorrect, let me tell you why:

In any modern political system, people that make the rules are not the same ones that enforce them. You've mentioned the police. The police don't make the laws, the parliament does. And parliament members are elected. Legislative chamber makes the law, judges choose how it must be applied, policemen finally take action.

So, you tell me that GM's must decide the laws, judge, and apply them. All the power in their hands. It sounds to me like some kind of dictatorship, to continue with your analogy. Maybe I can't make you understand the importance of public control on law making and enforcement. But it is important.

If all the power is in the same hands, there will be abuses. There won't be any way to prevent them. It won't matter at all if the ones chosen to be the legislator-judge-police power are reasonable people.

That's not what I said. The "powers that be" aren't the police. They're the ones that make the laws. GMs don't decide rules and guidelines on their own. They have input into it, like everyone else.

GMs have rules that only they have to abide by, in addition to the normal player rules. Those are the GM guidelines. Those are tighter now than they were.

Dallas wrote:Macias_P you must be new here..?

Piece of advice, STFU.

Take your own advice please.

So, you take each police officer to court for anything they do?

That was not exactly what i said. The analogy would be "So, you go to court before putting someone in jail for a sentence". And posting a screenshot in a thread with no possible replies is not exactly going to court, is it? Policemen and judges have different duties too. Anyway, it was just exploring the analogy you started.

Also note that having input may not be enough, as much of that input can be simply ignored. I was hoping that this experiment showed all of us a few simple things. Most players behave, , the game didn't become chaotic, etc... The poll showed that most players didn't want GM's to return, why was that? If most players behave then it is not because they want to bot massively. Maybe they wanted some changes. (Note that the losing option wanted to "all the gms back to the state they where before today. ")

Of course there should be some rules and those rules should be enforced. I just think that authorities should be subject to control by the public (in this game too), and rules should be debated and even voted. That is not possible leaving everything the way it was. It is quite obvious. I just made some suggestions how to make it possible.

The other comment, I'll just ignore it.

Hello.

I probably will get rejected but I might as well say it.
How about me as GM?
I wouldn't mind being a GM, I'm good. (usually)
I have tons of GM experience on other servers.
I also learned a lot from them too, see? www.dimondsdomain.blogspot.com
Well.. it doesn't look great, but it's okay...?
I know I'm known as "chaotic", "manipulating witch", "devil", ect.. but I'm still a good person!
Well, could you at least seriously consider me? I even changed my view about players and TMW in
general! =D

-Dimond :P

Dimond wrote:Hello.

I probably will get rejected but I might as well say it.
How about me as GM?
I wouldn't mind being a GM, I'm good. (usually)
I have tons of GM experience on other servers.
I also learned a lot from them too, see? http://www.dimondsdomain.blogspot.com
Well.. it doesn't look great, but it's okay...?
I know I'm known as "chaotic", "manipulating witch", "devil", ect.. but I'm still a good person!
Well, could you at least seriously consider me? I even changed my view about players and TMW in
general! =D

-Dimond

Usually, those who request to become a GM automatically disqualify themselves from the running to be considered for the position.

peavey wrote:

Dark Lord wrote:I was previously "Dark Lord" lvl 37 and magic but I deleted my account and am now called DarkLord* so I do not have very good stats but I know how TMW works and I would like to become a GM to stop botters spammers, etc and also I would like to help new players so that is why I would like to be a GM and I must say, I would be a very kind GM and yeah .

Since I see more than one of these threads let me explain how I see it.

By asking to be a GM you summarily disqualify yourself from ever being considered in my book. Instead the way it has been done so far, which is also the way I support its done, is that a player is brought into consideration by someone trusted in the community, be it a player, dev, GM etc. And then the merits of the player is worked out within the circle of trusted people, that includes again, players, devs, GMs etc.

Asking to become a GM here on the forum, no matter how benign in nature, makes me personally question the motives of such an asker, and is to me incompatible with the working selection process.

Yada yada yada, how about just in short: "Don't call us we'll call you".

http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... 2&start=16

SpamMaster wrote:Dimond for GM!

UberKalimero for GM!

Enchilado for GM!

Getafix for GM!

Darklord* for GM!

YAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(Nice blog Dimond, keep up the good work!)

Yay! SpamMaster for Ban!

Back on topic about GM's all we need is Queen Platyna to sit in town and idle to maintain order ;p Her very presence will strike fear into anyone getting the idea of doing something wrong and change their minds. I'd also like to propose an in game thrown for her to sit on. Hell maybe even her own castle that would rock

you are quite authority-friendly for someone with an anarchy-A on his avatar.

Crush wrote:you are quite authority-friendly for someone with an anarchy-A on his avatar.

What can I say I am an enigma.