The Mana World Forums

It is easy for someone to realise that there are ways to build up experience points through botting.

The only disadvantage from my perspective, although there may be others, is that it is an unfair advantage to other users.

There is a simple way to fix this. Please tell me what you think.

1) Limit the amount of items that a person can pick up reasonably in a certain amount of time per item. That way, they can't bot for too long.
2) When they have the maximum amount of items on their person, they are unable to benefit from any experience points any longer, so all they are doing is now killing things for others to pick up.

If this is done, it would deter botters . . . unless they are willing to share their 'catch' with others once the maximum has been reached.

Alternatively, as someone mentioned regarding another subject, a botter could have their IP address and email address checked to remove all accounts if they continually try it. Sure they can continually make new email addresses, and may even change their IP address, but the inconvenience, just to play a game, most people wouldn't bother. Most people. Those that are persistent will just have to perpetually make new IP's, new emails, new accounts, etc etc over and over.

I also don't understand why botting is permitted, as the link to manabot shows. Then it is the AFK activity that is banned. It doesn't make sense to me at all. Allowing it on the game, allowing it to be used, but not allowing it to be used for more than two minutes only when caught out, is half of a challenge. If this is the case, I may as well add ten bots, and just walk around monitoring them. See the senselessness of it all??

How does this solution deal with players who are in it for the XP and couldn't care less about what drops they leave behind?

Also, what kind of timeframe are you expecting would be able to distinguish bots from attentive players? With the fast attack bug long gone, there's nothing a bot could do to circumvent the weapon speed threshold.

Lord of the Flies wrote:There is nothing wrong with using an automated client in my opinion. It's all a matter of how someone decides to use it. If your concern is someone might load 10 clients to horde items than a better suggestion might of been to cap the number of connections per ip. Even if not botting that many clients seems excessive.

And I do agree if taken to the extreme and everyone did it would become a problem. It could really screw up the economy. However, someone loading 1, 2, 3 clients to hunt for items the impact is insignificant. Especially if they are not afk botting.

It often bugs me when people say using an automated client is an unfair advantage because disadvantage is by choice. If you have some silly moral issue about using automation than don't. But why start a witch hunt against those who have no problem using it? Unless they are in someway using it to break the rules? If it really bothers a person that someone might of killed a few more monsters than them or made gp a lil' more efficiently than them in a game... well lets just say.... they have a bigger issue than the one at hand.

Are you also going to get mad at the person who is a higher level or has better items because they started a year before you did? I mean seriously they been playing way longer than you that is definitely a huge disadvantage.

Grow up and stop being childish. Wahhh wahhh..... what about me!?!? Where's mine!!! Gimme mine!!!

LOL. Me have booboo.
The whole point is what you have stated yourself. There is nothing illegal about me having ten clients as long as I make sure that I monitor them that I reply every two minutes, then I can be sure that I am legally botting. It is not wrong to do this by the technicality of the law. This has nothing to do with someone's level. I mean, of all people, I have destroyed my highest level character twice now, and I am back in the forties again. I really don't care much for levels.

The issue is this: If botting is illegal, then the rules aren't enforced correctly, nor stated in a fair way, as there are the errors that allow for lag, as some have had the problem. If botting is legal, then every mana and his mouboo will be botting, and yes, the server will crash.

So, I can rush ahead and get my ten user names (I technically have more available to me already) and bot, and just monitor by looking at the different screens, while the person with one screen and two usernames gets a ban. This is the part that isn't fair. It is a rule. I appreciate the input, and asked for you to 'tell me what you think' so thanks.

Oh, and do you have a Winnie the Pooh bandaid for my boo boo??

radiant wrote:How does this solution deal with players who are in it for the XP and couldn't care less about what drops they leave behind?

Also, what kind of timeframe are you expecting would be able to distinguish bots from attentive players? With the fast attack bug long gone, there's nothing a bot could do to circumvent the weapon speed threshold.

There already is a timeframe mate. If it is suspected that someone is botting, they are given two minutes to respond to the GM's. If they are found to be botting, they will be removed and their name blocked. The thing is though, they could just open up another account.

I am in it for the timewasting recreational qualities. Not so much exp or money, not even rares. They are pixels. It is a game. If it wasn't here tomorrow, I'd play my guitar, or paint. It is a thoroughly enjoyable game, but it is a game. My point in this is that unlike what others may feel about my motives for this is a clarity of rules. Everything has rules. We don't have to play this game. We don't have to play by the rules, but if we don't we will eventually be removed. But if we decide we do want to play by the rules, then when a misunderstanding, or an issue arises, then those who try to go by the rules, and the rulemakers should discuss the issues at hand, even if for nothing but clarification.

As for the botting though, the rules at this stage allow it unless one is caught being AFK. This is like going into a fishing competition, then using dynamite, but because the person wasn't directly looking at the fisherman when he threw the dynamite, he isn't allowed to ban the fisherman. So what they do is just sit around the judge and make sure to have a presence at 30 degree intervals, and take turns throwing dynamite into the water. There is nothing that can be done. It is unfair on the rule enforcers if anything to try and keep a tab on it when it is allowed on a technicality. So that is why I brought this issue up for discussion mate. There are plenty of ways for exp in game, but if not, then a forum article on discussing the problems with higher level monsters and experience points not being enough, or more quests may be something that you want to bring up.

MrWho wrote:I agree with Lord of the Flies and i say: BOTTERS FOR GMs!!!

The next best thing after botters is a botter GM. He will always be online (botting)!!!

lol, agreed.

Lord of the Flies wrote:

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Stop the silly witch hunts against non-afk botters! We are a nice bunch of people to have in the game!

LOL. I must admit though, every disagreement seems to me like it is a witchhunt to you. You must do a lot of running in the real world.

Maybe you should take up footy. It is better, and yes, those guys in the funny coloured shirts, they are after you!!

Speiros wrote: 1) Limit the amount of items that a person can pick up reasonably in a certain amount of time per item. That way, they can't bot for too long.
2) When they have the maximum amount of items on their person, they are unable to benefit from any experience points any longer, so all they are doing is now killing things for others to pick up.

Finally an idea for the botting problem which is reasonable.

When we would make monster drops more heavy so that your weight limit is reached more quickly it would force people to return to town in regular intervals. This would make the game less monotonous and raise the bar for an efficient autonomous bot. And this wouldn't even require any programming change, just some changes at the item database.

But the collectors will get pissed when they can't store that much stuff on their main character.

I merged the thread "10 reasons why non-AFK botters rock" into this one because it was obviously a response to it.

Crush wrote:

Speiros wrote: 1) Limit the amount of items that a person can pick up reasonably in a certain amount of time per item. That way, they can't bot for too long.
2) When they have the maximum amount of items on their person, they are unable to benefit from any experience points any longer, so all they are doing is now killing things for others to pick up.

Finally an idea for the botting problem which is reasonable.

When we would make monster drops more heavy so that your weight limit is reached more quickly it would force people to return to town in regular intervals. This would make the game less monotonous and raise the bar for an efficient autonomous bot. And this wouldn't even require any programming change, just some changes at the item database.

But the collectors will get pissed when they can't store that much stuff on their main character.

That is true. Maybe they could be limited by amount rather than weight? I mean they can carry up to say 150 of each item on their person, which is reasonable, then if they wanted they could collect 150 of something else. This would allow them to use their bots, but would mean that they have to be monitoring them. Then they aren't breaking any rules, and they could have a mule to store stuff for them. That would also mean that they are there, even if it is just to transfer stuff from one avatar to another. There would be a lot of mule characters then, but if they were there, they'd have them with them on the same screen anyway, and would see when they were being questioned by a GM.

1) a simple coinstack bot wouldn't pick up items anyway
2) a programmed bot could easily trade items to a mule

Lord of the Flies wrote:

Speiros wrote:

Lord of the Flies wrote:

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Stop the silly witch hunts against non-afk botters! We are a nice bunch of people to have in the game!

LOL. I must admit though, every disagreement seems to me like it is a witchhunt to you. You must do a lot of running in the real world.

Maybe you should take up footy. It is better, and yes, those guys in the funny coloured shirts, they are after you!!

I don't need to run I am always the one charging head on.

Since you are a little slow let me explain things to you. I made this thread jokingly mocking yours. How many people do you actually think gives two shits including the GMs and DEVs that I or someone else uses an automated client? Do you honestly think any of them besides a small handful of Christian-fundamentalist-like type people shouting devil actually view this as some major threat? or grand injustice? I am sure this is at the bottom of their lists of major concerns. At most they acknowledge what very few actually regard as an issue. Point being go find something else to crusade against. You are wasting your time trying to make something big out of nothing. The only reason this whole botting debate is taking place is because myself and maybe a couple other people decided to humour it. If we didn't respond it would quickly be forgotten about. The proof will be your thread at the bottom of the page in a week or two.

Don't worry kid the mana world is not going to end because of the evil botters! I promise!

Actually, you are once again correct. The only reason this is a botting debate is because of your input which is aimed at dissing people without staying focused on the actual issue. Some of your input is useful, but mostly, you have to put your angry hatefilled messages, (which most of us dislike) into all your comments. You'd make a great leader of the opposition, always being negative to every positive, but this isn't a political campaign. As for your thoughts on someone's religious beliefs, what does that have to do with botting? Maybe the people who have the issues are all curly haired ones. Have you thought about having a bit of a stab in the side at them too? I can guarantee you, that as many people who are religious who have these feelings about botting, there are just as many who aren't. The issue is the botting, and on this, your input is appreciated. As for the rest, mate, you are a little off track and easily upset.

Also, I do honestly appreciate your input into any discussion, but I don't appreciate your rudeness. Next conversation that you have with me on the forums, if it contains any attacks at anything, I will not respond to, except with the response "I am ignoring your comment due to your lack of respect". I know that you don't care about that anyway, but I just want to discuss the subjects. It would be ashame to not discuss your issues with you, but others can, and you can still slag people off. You are just going to be treated by me, as one not worthy of a sensible conversation. Like it or not, I really don't care.

I think the idea with that timelimit would not be so good. Because manypeople are killing for drops (bats, redslimes,...) now let that weird timelimit about picking up, be 2 minutes. What then? do i have to make a break of 30 seconds after 2 minutes all the time? Do i have to use an emote or say something to "reset" that time? I don't think it is to difficult to program a bot to even deal with that time limit.

Also limiting how much you can carry is not so great. 100 items are possible by now. If you are just killing for the drops you reach that maximum fast.

But the thing with the weight is not bad. Even with the bot programmed to trade a mule when it is full. the mule can't carry much more either. There will have to be a break to go to town. So the one using the bot will have to pay attention at least every now and then.

@Amun: by programming a bot for GMs... problem with the warping thing: did you think about people who would abuse that and just use it to warp gms around? Also what if the GM is in a bot check or dealing with any other issue atm and gets warped away because someone sent @wgm?

cu ingame
Leela

Leela wrote: .............
@Amun: by programming a bot for GMs... problem with the warping thing: did you think about people who would abuse that and just use it to warp gms around? Also what if the GM is in a bot check or dealing with any other issue atm and gets warped away because someone sent @wgm?

cu ingame
Leela

not a big deal, a command can be added to turn off/on auto response to @wgm.

BTW, since it's an open source game project, I dont see an easy solution to botting/automation (if it's a problem to this community).

People varies & will always. Some ppl like to collect items, some wanna lvl up, some wanna solve quests where some others wanna chat around and some just feels "I am connected & not alone". I do them all from time to time.

Dev should concentrate if peoples are really having fun with the game. The more we talk negative the more negative impact the community will face.

Lord of the Flies wrote: It's a joke. Narus was joking around about me botting and I told her I would make her a gm bot. There is not really a gm bot ;p

hm k... but i think that a gm bot would actually be no bad idea... might make the job a bit easier for them if well made...

Lord of the Flies wrote:Well Speiros it is like this,

I treat people how they treat me. So if you come at me guns blazing like you did than expect a war. I don't have to take **** off anyone so I don't. If you want to have a conversation or debate with me that doesn't turn into a flame war than mind your approach and show a little respect and I will do the same. Because the reality of it is I am quite comfortable dealing with stuff in a diplomatic peaceful manner or in a combative manner. I let the person knowingly or unknowingly choose.

So you treat people how they treat you eh?? If you go to the beginning of this thread, it was at discussion level. Then you can quite easily follow it to where you start with your dribble. It is ashame that you don't realise where you start. Maybe this is the problem. You might not read what you have said yourself. Well, if you want a war, go play a war game fool. That is a blatant lie, you treating people how they treat you. You are a hyena. It is evident from the way you spoke to the person in whisper insulting them which is on a screenshot about your abuse. You treat people like crap regardless of how they treat you. I don't care to treat you anyway at all, but I do state a perspective. You do whinge about everything, and snarl and grind your teeth at everyone. You should live up to your name, Beelzebub, lord of the flies. Eat Chocolate Cupcake and die. lol.

As for having to take Chocolate Cupcake off anyone, no, you don't have to. And none of us have to put up with your disgusting slimey attitude towards everyone elses existence. Duck off and stop bull shitting everyone, and trying to put on your 'diplomatic' stance. You don't have one. You are a slanderer. That is all you are. A slanderer. Nothing nice to say, just rubbish. Not even true rubbish, just plain rubbish. So don't dribble your goobies out of your filthy abusive hole about how you are diplomatic. Go and growl at a passing dog or something. Rabid and easily insulted, and full of half truths, to defend yourself is the only thing you have in life to give to others.