[CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

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Crush
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by Crush » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:50 am

pateame wrote:[+] GIMP; I can sketch and do animations faster using layers, but if I apply any effect/rotation/resize, my color pallete is filled with colors that did not want to add and everything becomes a "pillow" to fix later (twice work to do).
The tools you mentioned can be set to use "Interpolation: None". That way they won't create any mixed colors. But even when you switch off interpolation, automatic transformation always look strange in pixel art, because these tools can't detect features like one pixel wide lines or dither patterns and preserver them.

You can also use GIMP in indexed color mode (picture->mode->indexed). That way you can guarantee that you won't get any unwanted colors in your image. But this has the disadvantage that deliberately adding new colors becomes more difficult and a lot of features are completely unavailable.

I always work in RGB mode and just avoid the tools which create mixed colors.
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by pateame » Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:47 pm

Thanks for this explanation. Learn how to use (Picture mode > indexed) was really helpful to start all over again. Now I can get the same features of similar graphic editors without worry about mixed stuff.
I was trying to redraw 'Packer' spritesheet using few colors to practice:
Image
Last edited by pateame on Sat May 07, 2011 1:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by skipy » Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:35 pm

niiccee! job so far :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ..please keep going!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

------skipy
back to working on---> (crypt)then(player 1.5) and more. *been on hold do to my laptop being fix* any feel free to add/help. ill be up and working as soon as i can ...good luck to all.


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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by pateame » Wed Feb 09, 2011 7:52 pm

Here is some updates on side views, just to share before my Hard Disk be wiped by force (.. press F13 to destroy ..)
¿Did anyone play TMW with zoom 200%+ to can verify every pixel ingame?
Super Paper Mario-Wii makes me feel like an idiot learning recently... I will take some vacations to play more videogames, see you soon! :mrgreen:
Last edited by pateame on Fri May 06, 2011 8:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Working on Modanung Concepts

Post by MerlinX420 » Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:17 pm

pateame wrote:Having a lot of free time on vacations... I was playing with "not toxic" clay and using a bad quality webcam on this experiment:
damm, looks like a kinder homework, but was really fun to try different techniques.
The good side... at least I can play with them without need of do a spritesheet and write XML to see their actions. The bad side, as you can see, I have few 'clay ingots' avaliable :lol:
That is an interesting way to prototype. I find it hard as well sometimes to get the correct perspective on monsters as well. I can look at all the pictures in the world of what ever it is and odds are I will never find a picture taken at the right angle.
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by pateame » Sun May 01, 2011 1:27 am

Im still learning and need some help on shading, death frames,
idle frames, perspective issues, XML, etc. Any help is welcome as always.
Last updated. 30/04/11

[+] Packer sketch:
- Spritesheet: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12510339/monste ... ressor.png
[+] Herbagressor sketch:
- Spritesheet: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12510339/monster-packer.png
Last edited by pateame on Fri May 06, 2011 7:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by nmaligec » Sun May 01, 2011 3:47 am

I have been watching this project from the start, but this is the first time I had something useful to say. First off, I just want to say your work is fantastic!

For xml, you need to:
1. Get rid of the grid lines in the sprite sheet. (Out of convenience I add on the frame size at the end of the file name so I can remember what to use in the xml, like sheet_32x64.png).

2. You need a stand frame for each of the 4 directions. This is an idle frame where the creature is not walking or attacking, it is just standing there. Note that this can be a sequence, like if you want it to move its head slightly to make it more interesting (I think only the squirrel mob has an animated stand sequence).
-----
edit:
Also, since attack and walk animations both start after a stand, the stand sequence should lead into both other sequences fluidly. For this reason it seems that the first frame of the walk animation is pretty good. It helps if attack animations have their first frame as, or based on, a stand frame.
-----

3. Needs a death frame for each direction. This can also be more than one frame per direction to make an animated sequence like for #2. A few mobs have animated death sequences but it is rare. Even the player set only uses one frame and it is a lot of work, you might as well use only 1 unless you are going for something epic.


Minor stuff:
It looks like you might be able to trim the frame size a bit but that isn't important. The important thing is that you did keep the same frame/grid size throughout a sheet.

The outline seemed a bit too strong/harsh. Maybe use a very dark version of the colour near the edges instead of pure black. That's just my opinion, the rest looks awesome.

PS: you mixed up the sprite sheet link order ;)
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by pateame » Tue May 03, 2011 9:44 pm

I'm happy to see this concept evolving, thanks for feedback.
Now I have some answers, but new questions too:

1) Idle/stand frames:
¿Can be possible to set a different behavior to "stand/attack/walk/death" on monsters XML/DB?
> Just drawing a single "sleep" animation for stand/idle. So "sleeping" monsters will stay quiet in the same spot until player attacks.
Image > A quick sketch
That could solve some troubles drawing frames for each position with herbagressor.

2) Death frames:
¿What could fit better: a death frame for each position or an animated death in a single position?
> My idea is to draw a single animated position:
Image (It works with packer, taking mouboo's death as example)
- But... on big size monsters as herbagressor, it doesnt look natural to kill it on front or back, and get a side animation.
Image Here's a quick idea, ugly ATM.

# Just taking some random numbers for animation frames...
Stand: 4 frames X 4 positions // Death: 4 frames X 4 positions
2 monsters = 2 x (16+16) = 64 frames to do
I have no problem with do it as long as be required, but I think that if quality is higher than needed, it will be more hard to fit with the current graphic style. For example, If idle/stand/death animations will be required in future CR1, lots of monsters (mogguns, terranites, yetis, etc) also will need to be updated.
.. Well, no more complaints, I have work to do! :wink:
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by Bertram » Wed May 04, 2011 12:41 pm

Hi pateame,
Just drawing a single "sleep" animation for stand/idle. So "sleeping" monsters will stay quiet in the same spot until player attacks.
Unfortunately, the client can't currently do that. Yet, there are a few possibilities:

1. Add a loooonnng time in the stand frames between the stand and sleep frames, so that the effect of getting asleep is obtained. There will always be a movement glitch when the monster is waking up, though.
2. Add two new transition actions, and a new action emulated by the client only (as for TmwAthena at least), permitting to go from stand to sleep, sleep to stand, and the sleep action.
The details about that and whether it's worth it, and be even more cleverly thought about is yet to be done, but you got the idea.
This would of course be only supported in the future clients.
2) Death frames:
¿What could fit better: a death frame for each position or an animated death in a single position?
> My idea is to draw a single animated position:
- But... on big size monsters as herbagressor, it doesnt look natural to kill it on front or back, and get a side animation.
Note that animals dying tend to get back in a foetal position. IMHo, With this in consideration, you can maybe find a simple way to make the player think that the herbagressor has changed its direction to do that before its last breath.

I hope this helped.

Best regards.
pateame

Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by pateame » Fri May 06, 2011 8:40 pm

Last updated. 06/05/11
* Spritesheet updated with death frames proposed, grid lines removed, frame size reduced manually, pure black outlines removed.
* Added .XML with testing values for current graphics, files tested on localhost eAthena.
To Do:
- Add idle frames and different death positions, improve whatelse be imagined for this concept.
- Fix possible issues with animations, shading and perspective. Add new frames for proposed animations.
I hope this "beta" version can help for testing, fixing and creating the required new frames, or just have some fun or learn with it.

------- files ----------------
monster-packer.xml
Spritesheet 102x90:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12510339/tmw/monster-packer.png
ImageImageImageImageImage
------------------------------------------------
monster-herbagressor.xml
Spritesheet 145x136:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12510339/tmw/mo ... ressor.png
ImageImageImageImageImage
----------------------------
[+] Notes about testing:
About other configurations as values on mob_db.txt and monsters.xml, I prefer you setup your own configuration because
the values I used on my server have the following problems:
1) The target circle on monsters isnt centered on herbagressor, I dont know how to setup those values to center it or make it bigger
(maybe on monsters.xml?) Devs surely know how to do that better.
2) The monsters stats on mob_db.txt I used are not balanced for the current game, I just use a similar value of mouboo to get a similar
speed movement for test frames and times on XML, something like:
1116, Herbagressor, Herbagressor, 85, 1200, 0, 0, 40, 2, 30, 75, 65, 5, 15, 5, 15, 0, 40, 10, 2, 2, 1, 3, 20, 129, 600, 1872, 672, 480, 660, 200, 660, 100, 541, 750, 660, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, , , , , , , 1, 30
1117, Packer, Packer, 90, 1200, 0, 0, 40, 2, 30, 75, 65, 5, 15, 5, 15, 0, 40, 10, 2, 2, 1, 3, 20, 129, 610, 1872, 672, 480, 660, 200, 660, 100, 541, 750, 660, 10, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, , , , , , , 1, 30

While I test how to do and improve that, feel free to use your own values.
Last edited by pateame on Wed May 11, 2011 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by nmaligec » Fri May 06, 2011 10:24 pm

About the target circle: you can change the size between small, medium, and large (I think its only those 3, might be more??) I used this for the scythe:

Code: Select all

<monster id="67" name="Scythe" targetCursor="large">
    ....
</monster>
It works in the old 0.0.29 client and the new official 0.5.2 client.

About the positioning in the circle: use frame/sequence offsets in the creature's xml file. I had to do this a lot to get some mobs centered after I optimized the sprite sheets to get rid of empty space. I use stuff like:

Code: Select all

<action name="walk" imageset="base">
		<animation direction="down">
			<sequence start="0" end="3" delay="150" offsetY="-10"/>
		</animation>
		<animation direction="left">
			<sequence start="10" end="13" delay="150" offsetX="-4" offsetY="-10"/>
		</animation>
		<animation direction="up">
			<sequence start="20" end="23" delay="150" offsetY="-10"/>
		</animation>
		<animation direction="right">
			<sequence start="30" end="33" delay="150" offsetX="4" offsetY="-10"/>
		</animation>
	</action>
I hope this helps.

Great work btw.

edit:
After watching the gifs you put up I just noticed that you missed a black line in the 2nd frame of the herbagressor. Its along the top of its back leg. You will notice it right away after watching the gif!

Also there seems to a stray pixels near the front foot of the packer's right facing walk animation. It only seems to be in the gif demo, I cant notice it in the sprite sheet (maybe just got there in the process of slicing it up for the gif??).
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by Dark_Mag » Sat May 07, 2011 9:06 am

hello everyone,

i have a couple of questions about clientdata xml:
  • is it available to make mob dieing in different directions, not only to the left or right?
  • how can i make npc walking? for example, as monster
  • is it available to change sprite of npc?
cheers, dark
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Crush
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by Crush » Sat May 07, 2011 9:45 am

Dark_Mag wrote:is it available to make mob dieing in different directions, not only to the left or right?
The direction property should also work for the death actions. When it doesn't you found a bug.
how can i make npc walking? for example, as monster
As far as I know TMWAthena doesn't support moving NPCs (Manaserv does).
is it available to change sprite of npc?
I don't think that this is possible either.
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by pateame » Wed May 11, 2011 5:47 pm

Thanks for helping on my questions. After update some offsetX/offsetY values, target is now centered on monsters:
On latest test I used the following targets in monsters.xml:

Code: Select all

<monster id="100" name="Packer" targetCursor="medium">
<monster id="101" name="Herbagressor" targetCursor="large">
+ Spritesheets: (no updates ATM)
Packer: (102x90): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12510339/tmw/monster-packer.png
Herbagressor (145x136): http://dl.dropbox.com/u/12510339/tmw/mo ... ressor.png
+ Latest version of fixed .XML files:
monster-packer.xml
monster-herbagressor.xml
But... I still have one more question about .XML stuff:
Image As screenie shows:
The problem testing was that names are placed too high above monsters
¿Why that happens?, ¿Can this value be changed in some file to show monster's name closer?
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Re: [CPT] Modanung's monster ideas

Post by Bertram » Thu May 12, 2011 1:29 pm

Hi Pateame,

If you're using the master version of the mana client, or a nightly. The issue is known and will corrected as fast as I get the reviews for the current changes I am on.

Thanks a lot for the excellent work and best regards.
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