[REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.

What would you do to the Daily Quests System?

Leave the system like that, it is good, I only hunt bats.
5
11%
Increase the amount of money won with hard-to-get items + increase the drop rate of present yellow & white present boxes.
12
26%
Increase the bat's hp to prevent bots to get rich.
4
9%
Make new Daily Quests with new items.
14
30%
Make quests that gives you Daily Quests Points.
11
24%
 
Total votes: 46
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[REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Alige » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:34 pm

Currently

Hello, I would like to say something about the daily quests. First, lets see what we need and what we get:
  • 3 Bat Wings = 4 Points = 600 gp
  • 4 Black Scorpion Stingers = 16 Points = 2,500 gp
  • 3 Yellow Present Boxes = 32 Points = 5,300 gp
  • 3 White Present Boxes = 64 Points = 10,800 gp
If we put all to a same level... We get this :
  • 48 Bat Wings = 64 Points = 9,600 gp
  • 16 Black Scorpion Stingers = 64 Points = 10,000 gp
  • 6 Yellow Present Boxes = 64 Points = 10,600 gp
  • 3 White Present Boxes = 64 Points = 10,800gp
We can see that there is a small increasing amount of money when we get better items (from Bat Wings to White Present Boxes).

What I propose

My point is that this increase isn't enough! As a player that often needs money, I am hunting Bats, they are really, really easy to kill (most of them are killed in 1 hit...). But I am level 86... it would make more sense if I was hunting Yetis... but still no, when I see the list here, I can see I only lose 1,200 gp by using Bat Wings and honestly it doesn't take more time to get this amount of Bat Wings instead of only 3 White Present Boxes.

I personally want this system to be better. Here are my ideas (all can be combined, which I think would be great for the game (not to win more money but only to make the game more sensed):
  • Increase drop rate of Yellow & White Present Boxes (with still white rarer than yellow).
  • Increase Bat's hp since bots kill them very well (250-350hp will be good, they will be killable in 2-3 hits and not in 1...). With this, people will understand that being a high level offers them better possibilities.
  • Increasing the difference between items. If we take Bat Wings as a reference, lets put the Black Scorpion Stingers make 2,800-3,000gp, then Yellow Present Boxes more and White Present Boxes even more.
With all these thoughts combined, I personally think that this will make the Daily Quests system better.

Ali-G
Last edited by Alige on Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by RooO » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:44 pm

very nice idea man :D
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Alige » Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:39 pm

I understand my post was long and that reading the poll only is enough but I still don't get replies here. Could you please give your opinion from an objective view and not as a player.
Giving everything to players kills the game thus the numerous quests in game.

Looking forward,
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by MrDemonWolf » Thu Mar 17, 2011 7:10 pm

I like your idea would be nice to get more money off a creature that is much harder to kill like a yeti. My only real problem is that while an increase in the bats hp would help against boters. The bat quest was meant for very low levels since at first their income I guess you would say is pretty much nothing. But an increase in their hp depending on how much the increase is shouldn't matter to much to newer players. The fact remains though that a simple increase in the bats hp wont deter boters it may slow them down a little bit or you will see a rise in mages or archers boting since they can hit 350 fairly easy. Or you may just see more players group their characters together and bot then do it with one single character. Other than the fact that you may have to rethink the hp increase I like the idea keep up the good work.
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Kage » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:15 am

What is best if we had a formula to determine monetary reward. You are on the right track but you need to include the quest's level requirement.

something like this...:

money = (level * 4) * points

Since the Scorp stringer quest is 16 points, and requires level 40, it should provide about 2,560.

The bat quest requirement is only level 20, so it would be: 320 = (20 * 4) * 4

This would be ideal, how ever you think the value should be defined.
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Kage » Fri Mar 18, 2011 1:22 am

Well... on second hand... keep in mind that higher levels will have more points. And that higher level quests should consume more points. There is value in having to do due fewer quests. And spend less time.
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by chaslinux » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:13 am

I find the Arkim quest a bit too long in the tooth, it takes too many clicks just to sell a bat wing. I don't bot, but it makes me want to bot to get through all the annoying pretext. Collecting the bat wings isn't the issue for me, it's getting through Arkim's babble that makes it annoying.
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Crush » Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:27 am

I don't think that it would be a problem to reduce the introduction text to the essential minimum when the quest was already copleted before.
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by chaslinux » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:32 pm

Crush wrote:I don't think that it would be a problem to reduce the introduction text to the essential minimum when the quest was already copleted before.
That would be great! I do the quest occasionally. I like that silkworms are spawned in that location as well (saving cocoons for possible eventual magedom).

I posted my comment in hopes that future daily quests also consider length. I know there's a balance that needs to happen -- you don't want everyone becoming gazillionaires. ;-)
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Zutan » Fri Mar 25, 2011 3:26 am

I have been reviewing this my self and have found that due to item value of what you are sacrificing the figures are more like:
Item________value___Exp/point___gp/point___max gp/point
Bat wings_____30______25________142.5_____168.91
Stingers_____400______31.25_____131.25____140.16
White box_____30_____40.63______164.69____197.66
Yellow box____30______43.75_____168.28____201.72

Value=gc if sold to a shop
gp/point=(reward-(value*qty))/points

The max gp/point is taking into account if you had
64 daily quest points left
all of the items do for all the quests up to 64 daily points worth
sell the remaining components to a shop

Making the stingers sell for 50 gp to a shop would bring the quest more in line with a gradual progression.
Item________value___Exp/point___gp/point___max gp/point
Stingers_____200______31.25_____143.75_____165.16

Currently money wise one is better off selling the stingers to a shop and doing the bat quests.
Please note this is only a partial analysis. Various things not taken into account with this include time to kill the monsters, time to complete the quests, the value of other drops the monsters will give, xp for killing said monsters and how many monsters you will have to kill .

Anecdotally, I think that if the drop rate of wings was reduced a little and the drop rate for stingers increased a little it would provide clearer advantages for higher level players to not bother with the lower level quests. Right now it takes so little time to get the wings it make sense to go that route and if it did take longer it would also result in lower level players using the bats to level more.

I am working on a complete breakdown of value for gc/xp/jobxp by monster by attack ability but it will likely be many lunar cycles before I finish it(if I finish it). Following such a thing can lead to a very predictable game which can be fun but also can be boring.

edit-completed some of my thoughts
edit2 noticed I had under priced the bat wings added a bit more info for repricing the stingers. edit3 noticed that I am tired and merely made a mistake in my accounting of my test so I refixed my figures.
Last edited by Zutan on Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Jumpy » Fri Mar 25, 2011 11:04 am

Hello

--SPOILER-- don't reed ahead if you want to keep the surprise for items quests requierements --SPOILER--
Feel free to delete the post if you wish too


First point:

According to wiki: here's the list of item requiered to make magic quest, quests and some of the skills
hope it helps in designing what items or other items might be used in daily quest (like items not used in quests ej : Black scorpion stinger are requiered for quests and other items are not)
(list does not inclued the quest for t armor and some skills)

as a suggestion it might be a good idea to change Black scorp stinger for another item

item / number of items for quests

Acorns 100
A herb 53
Angry Scorpion stingers 10
Arrows 75
bandit hoods 10
beers 7
blue presents 20
bones 50
boots 1
Bottles of Water 6
Bug Leg 22
C herbs 53
cactus drink 10
cactus potion 5
candies 15
cave snake lamp 21
cave snake tongue 21
cherry cake 1
chocolate bar 10
Chocolate Cakes 3
coal 28
concentration potion 2
dark crystal 1
Desert Hat 1
Desert Shirt 1
diseased hearts 10
Empty Bottles 3
G herbs 53
grass snake tong 51
green present 5
hard spike 4
inf helmet 2
iron lingot 9
iron ore 6
iron potion 2
iron powder 10
jack0 soul 1
jean shorts 1
keys 24
large potion 1
leather patch 1
M herbs 198
maggot slimes 97
medium healing potion 3
milk 1
Mountain Snake Egg 10
Mountain Snake Tongue 22
pearl 2
pile of ash 17
Pink Antennas 11
pink petal 1
poltergesit powder 2
purple present 25
Raw Logs 168
Red Apples 7
red scorpion stinger 27
roasted maggot 1
scorpion stingers 16
Serf hat 1
short sword 1
silk cocoon 101
small heling potion 3
small mushroom 11
Snake Skin 26
Snake Tongues 26
spectre powder 1
Steaks 3
tiny healing potion 2
white furs 104
wisp powder 4

Second point:

this list does not include what items are requiered in mage consommation of item for spell casting
which would be interesting to take in account too
this list would be

Raw Log
Lifestone
Maggot Slime
Root
Knife
Sharp Knife
Pile of ash (Sulphur Powder)
Silkworm
Bug Leg
4 types of herbs
Ginger Bread Man
Hard Spike
White Furs
Beer
Bottle of water
Cotton Clothes
Arrows
Iron Powder (Iron ore)
Small Mushroom

New Daily Quests or Current Daily Quests should not be on those items imho

Third point:

Time consuming to get drops for daily quests throught level is key point to a good Daily Quest SYstem imho
as well as Level requirment
unbalance system in game is (again here) a problem

if you play mage it will be much easier to get the yellow boxex and white boxes (just park your mage char in Cindy quest and gather the boxes
which would take like hours for a warrior to get one box (if lucky a white one)

if you are archer have your char parked in gy
easy way to gain bones skull and all undead drops from zomby (not talking about fallens)

Warrior... well try to park beside crypt or just collect to sell to npc as mages use some old warrior that are now farmers to collect what they need to cast spells and won't buy from you (except iron ore maybe :) )

kind of a hege challenge in the game balancing issue

Hope this has help

Sincerely
DBMP - BMS - HFDI
Don't Bring Me Problems - Bring Me Solution
and Have Fun Doing It : P

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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Alige » Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:56 pm

Jumpy seems to get the point. In overall, what I think is that it would be good to do all of this:
  • Increase a little bit the bat's hp
  • Make a better contrast between easier and harder daily quests in terms of money
  • Change the black scorp stingers to something else
  • Create new daily quests that fits every level (20 / 40 / 60 / 80 is what we have now... but nobody does the 60 or 80 because the Yetis are quite hard to kill)
  • Increase the white / yellow white present boxes droprate OR decrease the Yeti's difficulty
  • Lastly, create new quests that give you daily quests points!
I think I said everything I have in my head.

Looking forward about this,
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Zutan » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:21 am

I like the idea of more quests that give daily points.
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Kage » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:49 am

If black stingers sell to the shop for 400gp then that needs to changed ASAP as that is WAY too much.

Edit:
Ok its only 100gp. I see what you are saying. Maybe it should be reduced some, however you will still get more money doing the daily stinger quest then you would outright selling the stingers.

If what you are saying:

(Bat quest + sell stingers) > (stinger quest)

Then your logic is flawed because you can't disagree that.

(stinger quest) > (bat quest)

Meaning that:

(stringer quest + sell stringers) > (Bat quest + sell stingers)

Meaning that the bat quest is still obsolete.

Besides the number of bat wings/day you'll have to collect will be many folds beyond that of stingers/day you have to collect.

For a level 70 the math breaks down to:

(70 / 4) * 3 = 52.5 Bat wings
(70 / 16) * 4 = 17.5 Scop Stinger

To complete the daily maximum. 17 scorp stingers is undoubtedly easier to collect the 50 bat wings for a higher level.
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Re: [REQ] Daily Quests System Review

Post by Zutan » Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:45 am

Kage wrote:If what you are saying:
(Bat quest + sell stingers) > (stinger quest)
I am saying that 16*(bat quest)> 4*(stinger quest) due to the materials consumed . The materials consumed in completing the quests have value and at their current values the end result is that you earn more on a per daily quest point basis if you pursue bats over stingers and if you pursue both you are better off even more by selling the stingers.
Besides the number of bat wings/day you'll have to collect will be many folds beyond that of stingers/day you have to collect.
For a level 70 the math breaks down to:

(70 / 4) * 3 = 52.5 Bat wings
(70 / 16) * 4 = 17.5 Scop Stinger

To complete the daily maximum. 17 scorp stingers is undoubtedly easier to collect the 50 bat wings for a higher level.
I agree that it should be this way. However I am level 69 and conducted two tests:
So bat cave starting from town, to cave, farming until 60 bat wings gathered, completing the 17 quests and returning to town:
Time 12 min. resources remaining after the quest
9 bat wings(90gp), 39 bat teeth(468gp), 8 bug legs(160gp), 12 cactus drink(300gp), 22 Maggot slime(88gp), 9 silk cocoon(27gp), 1 dagger(500gp), 17 quests completed(10200) total 11833gp
Bats take 1 hit to kill and zero attention is paid to safety. rarely paused between killing

So scorpion cave.
Starting from town, to cave, farming until 8 stingers gathered, completing 2 quests and returning to town:
Aim 12 Min limit. Well I got to 7 stingers and felt I should at least get 8 before heading back.
Time 15 Min
11 Bug legs(220gp), 1 leather shirt(1000gp), 2 quests(5000gp) total 6220 gp
Scorpions take 3 hits to kill and I paid a little attention to safety but sacrificed healing foods(water) to try and be as quick as possible. After killing the 10 had to wait a few seconds for spawning to start.

Based on the timings it would take me 2.5 times as long to do the 4 stinger quests I am able to do in a day and I would still have 5 points left. I did not check the xp total gained from the two incidents though I think the scorpions did better.

Please try the test your self. This is not the first time I had these kind of results it is only the first time I checked the clock while doing it.

As a much further step maybe a tweak of all the values could produce a best of all worlds sort of thing. If the quests were on a per item basis ie each stinger is worth 625gp+exp when 4 daily points are spent then the dialogue could be done as per water refilling. So how many stingers do you have for me today? The other three would need a little tweaking as they don't break down but it would help speed up the process while reducing the need to use the lower levelled quests to maximise point usage. This would avoid the level 60 character doing 3 stinger quests to have to go back and do 3 bat quests.
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