[WIP] Little Samurai

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Wombat
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Wombat » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:39 am

It wasn't a criticism, it was me informing you that this piece of art won't be accepted into the game as it is.

http://wiki.themanaworld.org/index.php/Guidelines These are the general guidelines. However, as stated before, we are taking certain inconsistent steps in regards to the player set, monsters based on the player set and its equipment. I recommend cloning our client data and look through our art for more information on how to do TMW art for TMW-eA.
Current character is "Abolish".
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Meemxes » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:28 am

I initially wanted to avoid seeming too meticulous, but perhaps I need to clarify what I'm doing:
  1. Preliminaries: concept, research, etc.
  2. Make a bunch of sketches.
  3. Convert sketches into vector art.
  4. Get feedback and implement changes. (Consider making a single change. There are sparse O(n) anchors and handles as opposed to O(n^2)pixels to modify. Multiply that difference by 15 attack frames, 8 walking frames, ..., and 4 directions to see why the intermediate vector phase is useful as a draft phase, aside from its generality as a template of any size.)
  5. Upload the vector version of the spriteset to a general open source collection like OpenGameArt. It should serve as a modifiable, resizable template.
  6. Convert the vector art into pixel art for TMW. I'm aware that vector art and pixel art are not stylistically the same thing (if they were then the GIFs I posted would count as pixel art, which they do not). I'm also aware that the work may require some stylistic modification and other tweaks. This particular spriteset will be about 32x32.
    Based on Crush's recommendations:
    1. Most colors will be reassignable (all except the feet).
    2. The spriteset will not contain a weapon. The weapon spriteset can be made separately and there will be a vector draft ready to go.
    3. The spriteset will match the player set as much as possible (as opposed to some NPCs that are in a different style).
    Based on poison_ivy's recommendations:
    1. I'll pay extra careful attention to ensure that the hands and feet don't look weird, too small, or outright disappear.
  7. Get good feedback on this forum for how to perfect the spriteset for use in TMW.
This piece is currently between phases (2) and (4).

If this project is useless for TMW, please let me know as soon as possible so that I do not implement phases (6) and (7) for TMW.
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Crush » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:31 am

I think we are all aware here now that the graphics Meemxes posted so far are just concept art and not graphics intended for productive use.

I for myself am very eager to see how Meemxes will transfer his inkscape sketches to sprites in the TMW style. After we have seen that, we can still argue about how well they work together with the existing graphics, but currently it's merely theoretical what we are talking about.
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by meway » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:28 pm

Meemxes wrote:I initially wanted to avoid seeming too meticulous, but perhaps I need to clarify what I'm doing:
  1. Preliminaries: concept, research, etc.
  2. Make a bunch of sketches.
  3. Convert sketches into vector art.
  4. Get feedback and implement changes. (Consider making a single change. There are sparse O(n) anchors and handles as opposed to O(n^2)pixels to modify. Multiply that difference by 15 attack frames, 8 walking frames, ..., and 4 directions to see why the intermediate vector phase is useful as a draft phase, aside from its generality as a template of any size.)
  5. Upload the vector version of the spriteset to a general open source collection like OpenGameArt. It should serve as a modifiable, resizable template.
  6. Convert the vector art into pixel art for TMW. I'm aware that vector art and pixel art are not stylistically the same thing (if they were then the GIFs I posted would count as pixel art, which they do not). I'm also aware that the work may require some stylistic modification and other tweaks. This particular spriteset will be about 32x32.
    Based on Crush's recommendations:
    1. Most colors will be reassignable (all except the feet).
    2. The spriteset will not contain a weapon. The weapon spriteset can be made separately and there will be a vector draft ready to go.
    3. The spriteset will match the player set as much as possible (as opposed to some NPCs that are in a different style).
    Based on poison_ivy's recommendations:
    1. I'll pay extra careful attention to ensure that the hands and feet don't look weird, too small, or outright disappear.
  7. Get good feedback on this forum for how to perfect the spriteset for use in TMW.
This piece is currently between phases (2) and (4).

If this project is useless for TMW, please let me know as soon as possible so that I do not implement phases (6) and (7) for TMW.
Keep working on it!!! The one of many problems with this project is lack of concept. If you can think of a better way to make animation and conceptualize unorganized behavior It would be great for the project. So please Continue your work I'm interested to see what you come up with next.

p.s I would rename the topic to be a little more specific. little samurai vector art and concept [wip], maybe?
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Meemxes » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:05 pm

Thanks for your encouragement. :) I've attached a pixel art preview of one of the right-facing frames against different backdrops. The final version will not include the weapon and the gold/skin tones will be replaced by simple colors. Let me know if you can think of any improvements. Here are some specific questions.
  1. [8]Is the edge contrast good throughout?
  2. How's eye size?
  3. Foot size? (You'll be able to see the hands better when it's animated, but they're there.)
  4. Other suggestions?
BTW, poison_ivy was right on: before modification, the hands and feet need more tweaking than almost anything else.
Attachments
pixel - preview 01 A.gif
pixel - preview 01 A.gif (1.31 KiB) Viewed 1235 times
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Meemxes » Tue Apr 12, 2011 4:59 pm

Question. I'm making a spriteset for the weapon at the same time as I'm working on the mob. May I create swooshes for weapon movement that use transparency or is that a break from the style? As far as I know the scythe is the only mob that uses anything close to this kind of technique. If no swooshes with alpha shifts, are any swooshes okay or is this a no-swooshy game?

Aside: despite the fact that I elsewhere recommend a couple of changes for humanoid spritesets, I'm not playing rogue artist by implementing them for this spriteset. Whether or not my suggestions should be used isn't my decision, at least not alone and maybe not at all.
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Meemxes » Wed Apr 13, 2011 1:07 am

A vector draft and a pixel art animation of the right walk. So far so good I think. As always, feedback welcome.
Attachments
homunculus_samurai_animation_03.gif
homunculus_samurai_animation_03.gif (51.85 KiB) Viewed 1162 times
pixel - preview 02.gif
pixel - preview 02.gif (5.49 KiB) Viewed 1163 times
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Wombat » Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:37 am

Meemxes wrote:Question. I'm making a spriteset for the weapon at the same time as I'm working on the mob. May I create swooshes for weapon movement that use transparency or is that a break from the style? As far as I know the scythe is the only mob that uses anything close to this kind of technique. If no swooshes with alpha shifts, are any swooshes okay or is this a no-swooshy game?

Aside: despite the fact that I elsewhere recommend a couple of changes for humanoid spritesets, I'm not playing rogue artist by implementing them for this spriteset. Whether or not my suggestions should be used isn't my decision, at least not alone and maybe not at all.
We have discussed adding trails to weapons. Yes, this would be an acceptable addition and would give a sprite others can examine for pointers on future weapon attacks. It does offer a different style than our present weapons, though some potential player set attacks used them with good effect.
Current character is "Abolish".
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Crush » Thu Apr 14, 2011 1:54 pm

I think monsters are a great way to experiment with such effects. Why don't we just give it a chance?
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Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Meemxes » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:42 pm

See below for right attack set, dyed and not, with weapon and not; plus animation.

Does dying work if the target palette has alpha?

As presented, some mob images are repeats---there are 9 distinct images but 16 frames in the animation. I did this to keep the mob frames together with the corresponding weapon frames for clear presentation.

Feedback welcome.

I won't be able to produce much the next few weeks due to work deadlines. But I still aim to finish this spriteset by the end of May.
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pixel - preview 05.png
pixel - preview 05.png (17.77 KiB) Viewed 1105 times
pixel - preview 04.gif
pixel - preview 04.gif (6.24 KiB) Viewed 1105 times
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Meemxes » Wed May 04, 2011 9:49 pm

pixel art preview (small).gif
pixel art preview (small).gif (38.3 KiB) Viewed 1038 times
I still have some work to do on the spritesheets, create a spear, make the xml, and package it up.

edit: fixed the error in the westward walk frame sequence and used white background to better show alpha in trails
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Meemxes » Mon May 09, 2011 6:49 pm

Please help.

I have almost no experience with xml and this is my first sprite for TMW. Someone please review my work and check for errors. I've attacked a package with the xml's and png's:
  • monster-homunculus-samurai-base (R; B dyable)
  • monster-homunculus-samurai-naginata
  • monster-homunculus-samurai-spear
I'm mostly concerned about the basic setup of the xml files. But first I have a question about the png. I know the grid is supposed to be rectangular so I made it that way. But I use only one dying animation for all directions. Removing the repeated 3/4 of them reduces filesize by over 20%. Should I do that or leave the grid rectangular?

In the xml's, I usually specify individual frame indices instead of using sequence tags. That's because I often adjust the delay and include both forwards and backwards subcycles. It looks better and saves lots of filesize on the png. But since the animation sequences are more complex, checking them is tricky without the graphical templates I made. I haven't included them here so I wouldn't bother checking the animation sequences yet. The templates will be with the final package. But let me know if for some reason you want to see them now.

The frames are all 64x64. (Soon, I'll put such info in a readme.)

Thanks!
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Reid » Mon May 09, 2011 8:07 pm

I didn't checked more, but here a small things :

Code: Select all

			<end />
No need of these lines afaik, the </animation> does this work (correct me if I'm wrong).
Exept that I think that it works correctly, but again, I just checked it some seconds... You should wait for a tmw dev for better answer. ^^



Edit : Sorry, didn't saw what you said about animation... I correct my post. :roll:
Edit2 : Also, why putting as much simple 'stand' action? You can put funny idle animation with your sprite ^^ like moving sword, or mooving hands... Just an idea.


Edit3 : Why this empty action on "monster-homunculus-samurai-naginata.xml" ?

Code: Select all

	<action name="default" imageset="spear">
	</action>
And I'm not sure, but you refer to an other imageset on this last xml, may you should add it? (imageset="naginata")
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Re: [WIP] Little Samurai

Post by Meemxes » Wed May 11, 2011 5:25 am

The <end /> lines: I agree they're often unnecessary and I think in most cases could have left out the delay. I used the tag to say "I'm ending this animation on purpose but it can be made cyclic by getting rid of the tag".

Stand animation: You're right. I was being lazy. I added a simple stand animation for each direction. Here's how the front should look.
pixel - preview 06 breathe.gif
pixel - preview 06 breathe.gif (1.74 KiB) Viewed 970 times
About the code

Code: Select all

<action name="default" imageset="spear">
</action>
To be honest, my only justification is I copied what I saw done for other weapons like weapon-bow.xml. I read it as "This weapon is invisible except for where explicitly defined".

The appearance of imageset="naginata" in the spear xml file: Aah! Thanks for catching that. It's fixed.

I've attached a revised package with the new png and xml files.

Anyone, please feel free to recommend changes/fixes. If I don't hear from anyone within the next 5 days or so (around May 16, 2011), I'll tweak and double check, then package the whole thing up: vectors, sprites, templates and all.

Please let me know if TMWeA would like to use these sprites. If so, I'll make it known when I post the package online.
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