Yeti changes

Got something on your mind about the project? This is the correct place for that.
Forum rules
This forum is for feature requests, content changes additions, anything not a Bug in the software.
Please report all bugs on the Support Forums
User avatar
Jenalya
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 718
Joined: 22 Sep 2010, 20:28

Re: Yeti changes

Post by Jenalya » 21 Aug 2011, 18:46

The cindy quest was the very first quest I made and when I started to play around with the Yeti stats to adjust it for the quest, I first tried the stats it already had in the mob_db, which was with that high speed.
I liked that, because it made them challenging and so I never reduced it. But I didn't know anything about Adelay, Amotion and Dmotion (I left them as they were) and what speed has to do with the graphics and the stats were accepted as I set them, so assumed they're ok.

When the speed was changed, this somehow slipped through under my attention. I noticed the change some days ago and was trying to get into how the monster xmls works and how it relates to Adelay, Amotion and Dmotion, since the low speed totally breaks the balancing for the Yeti battle (maybe adding some Ice Elements to it would fix that?). The relation between mob_db values and xml is still a bit confusing for me.
I came to suspecting that the Yeti sprite is just not applicable for such a high speed?
Here what I made out of the informations I found:

The current values are Speed = 380, Adelay = 666, Amotion = 1000, Dmotion = 600.
About Adelay I only found the explanation "Adelay is Attack Delay." which isn't really helpful. What is Attack Delay?
"Amotion is the amount of time a mob does not move after attacking." So I assume Amotion should be the sum of the delay of the frames used for the attack sequence? This contains four frames which each are given a delay of 105. But since 4*105 = 420 is not 1000, either my assumption or the entry in mod_db or the xml is wrong.
"Dmotion is the amount of time a mob does not move after taking damage." Since we don't have a hit animation, I assume this value doesn't matter in regards to graphics?
In which way does speed affect the display of the animations?
It'd be great if someone experienced can bring some clarity in this.

@pateame:
The wolf will probably be used in a quest which is aimed for middle level characters. Also, I have some scripting in mind to have "wolvern ambushs" on a map with quite a lot of trees, so I hope to use the environment as a challenging factor as well.
User avatar
Freeyorp101
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 708
Joined: 04 Nov 2008, 10:17
Location: New Zealand

Re: Yeti changes

Post by Freeyorp101 » 21 Aug 2011, 23:33

Jenalya wrote:About Adelay I only found the explanation "Adelay is Attack Delay." which isn't really helpful. What is Attack Delay?
Attack delay is the delay between attacks. A lower value means the delay between attacks is shorter, and so the mob will attack at a faster rate. Conversely, a higher value means the mob will attack at a slower rate. Compare how often a poltergeist attacks to how often a snail attacks. If it helps, you can think of it as sort of being like the opposite of an agi attribute with regards to attack speed. Sorry, but I'm not sure how else to describe this, as I've always thought of it as being more or less self-apparent. :?
Jenalya wrote:"Amotion is the amount of time a mob does not move after attacking." So I assume Amotion should be the sum of the delay of the frames used for the attack sequence? This contains four frames which each are given a delay of 105. But since 4*105 = 420 is not 1000, either my assumption or the entry in mod_db or the xml is wrong.
There is almost always a large margin of error for the amotion value to reduce the frequency of display issues caused by network latency.
Jenalya wrote:"Dmotion is the amount of time a mob does not move after taking damage." Since we don't have a hit animation, I assume this value doesn't matter in regards to graphics?
It is indeed irrelevant to client data. Be very careful with this value, as when set too high it will become very easy for players to completely lock a mob down in hitstun.
Jenalya wrote:In which way does speed affect the display of the animations?
Speed is the walking speed of the mob, and it should not. What are you seeing with the "buggy" values? If the client is resetting an animation sequence when it should not, then this is a client bug.


---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
User avatar
Yoshimura
Peon
Peon
Posts: 27
Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 05:51

Re: Yeti changes

Post by Yoshimura » 23 Aug 2011, 06:15

please keep yeti as they are now
pateame

Re: Yeti changes

Post by pateame » 24 Aug 2011, 00:23

It's better to set the old speed value to be fair with original Cindy quest concept of teamwork challenge with different classes, not a single mage battle. I'm a tank ingame, so it won't do my gameplay easier, but I surely can help a mage being a human shield against yetis (missing the drops and getting less exp, but keeping mage alive to be healed).
I was testing more random values trying to get a faster monster, finally I had to remove the stand animation from .XML and reduce the delays on attack animations to can fit monster with speed 220. It's not perfect, but some conclusions:
+ If monster has stand animations, time used on attack sequences will be (stand+attack). As monster follow the cycle of attack/stand/attack, it's better to remove stand animations to configure faster monsters. Also .XML values affect the overall time duration, for long frame sequences we will need lower delay values to don't skip any frame during animation.

Image
Preview using Speed: 220, adelay:800, amotion:672, dmotion:900
Here's another version of .XML file, but sure need testing first:
monster-yeti.xml

Code: Select all

xxxx,	Yeti,			Yeti,			100,	8500,	0,	0,	300,	2,	100,	400,	60,	15,	60,	5,	45,	15,	60,	32,	1,	1,	1,	0,	61,	135,	220,	800,	672,	900,	1023,	700,		4024,	300,		4025,	400,		4027,	142,		4021,	800,		4022,	700,		0,	0,		0,	0,		0,	0,	0,	0,	0,	0,	0,	0,	0,	0,	2,		30
Frost
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 851
Joined: 09 Sep 2010, 07:20
Location: California, USA

Re: Yeti changes

Post by Frost » 25 Aug 2011, 22:50

pateame, I tried your updated yeti.xml in my local client and made the edits you suggest to mob_db.txt on a server to test.

It looks good to me. Yeti running movements seem regular and appropriate when running in each direction. Attacks use both paws and the damage seems to correspond to the attack animation. Yeti speed is slightly slower than character movement speed, and appears to be about the same as the original (I didn't compare numbers).

You include wonderful animations in your posts. I'm afraid I have only words here. If it helps, there's temporarily (therefore possibly down by the time you read this) a server with your suggested change at
caliban.homeip.net port 6903

Thank you!
You earn respect by how you live, not by what you demand.
-unknown
User avatar
Jenalya
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 718
Joined: 22 Sep 2010, 20:28

Re: Yeti changes

Post by Jenalya » 26 Aug 2011, 22:51

Thank you for the explanations Freeyorp. :)
pateame wrote:Preview using Speed: 220, adelay:800, amotion:672, dmotion:900
Here's another version of .XML file, but sure need testing first
I did some local testing of the new xml and adapted speed, adelay and amotion too. I didn't change dmotion since it doesn't have to do with the graphics. It looks really good to me now, thanks pateame. :)
Those version of the Yeti is now available at the testserver on port 6901, so more testing, e.g. a group of testers doing the Yeti battle, can be done before it reaches the official server.
User avatar
Nard
Knight
Knight
Posts: 1113
Joined: 27 Jun 2010, 13:45
Location: France, near Paris

Re: Yeti changes

Post by Nard » 27 Aug 2011, 07:33

My testing procedure:
I use manaplus advanced client (aka 4144 patch) on ubuntu 10.04 and 10.10. I will not use regular client until an apt repository with bins will be created.
I created chars with exactly the same stats as the chars I play with in main server, with which I am accustomed with.
I will create special chars to have status variations (not done yet).

I tested yetis alone with Nard ( lvl 95, (30 36 62 97 51 50+1) tanked, (30 36+1 62 97+4 51 50+1) untanked) as there are no dating convention for testing. My comparison refers to yetis before the recent changes unless indicated.
Jenalya's changes make the challenge much more effective for mages to fight yetis. the relative (to char) effective speed is slightly higher while the animation is much more fluid as it is now. My #flar still no longer freezes them as it did before (which I regret a bit because it was fun even risky. I could save a lot of archers and mages with it) thus I can't really use it when alone and untanked, ingrav instead.
Please let me now if you plan a free cindy quest party.
At the moment, I suggest this mod to be ported to main as soon as possible.

I will update (edit) this post with further testing instead of making new posts
"The language of everyday life is clogged with sentiment, and the science of human nature has not advanced so far that we can describe individual sentiment in a clear way." Lancelot Hogben, Mathematics for the Million.
“There are two motives for reading a book; one, that you enjoy it; the other, that you can boast about it.” Bertrand Russell, Conquest of Happiness.
"If you optimize everything, you will always be unhappy." Donald Knuth.
User avatar
Jenalya
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 718
Joined: 22 Sep 2010, 20:28

Re: Yeti changes

Post by Jenalya » 27 Aug 2011, 22:00

Ok, we did some more testing on the testserver and currently the server is running with this values:
Speed 220, Adelay 1200, Amotion 672, Dmotion 900
These are close to the original setup regarding attack delay and stun time, and the graphics seem fluid, though the Yetis look very raging - but I think that fits to the story very well. :wink:
Pateame, would you visit the testserver and give your opinion about how it looks?
Post Reply