The Mana World Forums

Nard wrote:I vote no because I think Mom is sometimes too fast on her judgments and definitive in her opinions (about people), and thus can make some big mistakes. I don't want to see her making such one as a GM.
I vote no because if wee need extra GMs, they should be now chosen among european, asian, or australian players. 5 on american continent is far enough.

hey nard,
though i disagree with your perspective of how i judge and how i voice my opinion about people, i do voice my opinions and judgement on other things (such as the no follow rule), which i think is important. I believe every player has an opinion and should be open about them so the game could be a better enviroment for other players. People who voice their opinion also speak for people who would stay quiet about how they feel. Its like putting up your hand to a teacher to ask a question in class that others are to shy to ask. Even GM's have opinions on things that go on in game as a player.

As for the 5 GM's on american continent, i havent seen at least 1/5 of them active for a very long time. I should also explain i am usually not on a "proper" day schedule which mostly means i am up most of the night and sleep during the day due to online work and other personal reasons i have. I witness myself things going on tmw when im online and no GM's are.

Thanks for sharing your opinion nard i appreciate everyones opinion and when people explain their reasons.

Regards,

First, I want to say that I don't expect the GMs to be online everyday. They're not paid, they contribute for the fun. We all want our GMs to be able to keep their heads cool, enjoy their position and enjoy being online with us in addition to their annoying tasks. We can't expect mandatory online presence from them. I don't care if some of our GMs are less active than others. They're all excellent when they're online. I am glad we have such a team of GMs.

During the European day/American night, there is usually mrgrey in the morning, then Big Crunch appears in the beginning of the afternoon. The longest time without GMs is during the American day/European night. Chicka Maria is often connected, she's online every day. She covers a good part of the European time with no GMs.

I read about a maximum of 5 GMs everywhere in this thread. I dont contribute a lot to the forum, I dont know what this is exactly about. But I see you fighting to have a GM at all moments. In this case, our GMs should be online for an average of 33 hours a week. Almost a full time job. This limit is a bit sad. As soon as GMs are not online, spamming and begging start again in town. There is less spam during my day (I am European) and it is easy to understand why: there are around 40 people online during the European day. During the European night, it can double. What exactly, objectively, do we need more? Chicka is also connected while american day.

I think an average of 10 hours a week to calculate the time a GM would be probably online is a lot more reasonnable estimation. In this case, we would need about 15 GMs, not 5. 15 is a lot. For now our GM team is really skilled, smart and cool. Of course it would be silly to decrease the level of the team just to have more people. But we have the chance there to have just another GM, really active, and who can be really skilled, too. So why should we do without her just to respect a limit?

Nard - I disagree with you strongly on what you said about how future GMs should be picked from only other continents now. This is not because I want more GMs from my continent at all though; in fact, European GMs or GMs from less represented regions would be a great thing. But, I disagree because of how these votes are set up.

Ultimately, GM polls come down to a few things: You need to be well known, players need to have confidence in you and your temperament, and in your ability to fairly judge right or wrong without pushing your own morals on players. The ones chosen so far have not been chosen because of where we're from - in fact, a large amount of those votes came from all around the world. Nothing stops you from nominating someone you like from your region, but if they cannot gain the needed votes, then it won't work out.

One last problem I would like to address: I keep seeing this attitude about GM polls running at the same time, that if one gains many votes, the other one has no chance. Numerous players have said this to me, along with their intentions to only vote for one so their candidate has a better chance. This is very sad to me - GM polls are judged on an individual basis, it is not a competition. Honestly, I think a large part of why most GM polls never get close to passing is exactly this... each candidate's friends only votes for them, and then either ignores the other active polls, or votes no because they think that will help their friend pass somehow. So, vote fairly, and for those you feel will be fair, even-tempered, and competent, not for all your friends, or for anyone in your location - we're voting for people, not a government.

i told Chicka ingame: you can buy my "yEs" vote for 200k gp but she didnt eccept!!!

i voted "Yes" because she didnt pay!!!!

it looks like she is playing fair! respeckt!!!!

regards Chef

I voted a BIG YES because , she helps sometimes she knows good english and she is a fair Player !
Good luck .

I make it a point not to vote for gms because I stopped caring long ago. I make an exception in this case because chicka is one of the nicest players I know, plus she is just awesome. Good luck girl n_n.

Who is so mean that they vote 'NO' D:

I repeat I think that 2 or 3 more GMs would lighten the burden of existing ones, and allow them to discuss easier if they meet a difficult case.

mistergrey wrote:Nard - I disagree with you strongly on what you said about how future GMs should be picked from only other continents now. This is not because I want more GMs from my continent at all though; in fact, European GMs or GMs from less represented regions would be a great thing. But, I disagree because of how these votes are set up.

Ultimately, GM polls come down to a few things: You need to be well known, players need to have confidence in you and your temperament, and in your ability to fairly judge right or wrong without pushing your own morals on players. The ones chosen so far have not been chosen because of where we're from - in fact, a large amount of those votes came from all around the world. Nothing stops you from nominating someone you like from your region, but if they cannot gain the needed votes, then it won't work out.

One last problem I would like to address: I keep seeing this attitude about GM polls running at the same time, that if one gains many votes, the other one has no chance. Numerous players have said this to me, along with their intentions to only vote for one so their candidate has a better chance. This is very sad to me - GM polls are judged on an individual basis, it is not a competition. Honestly, I think a large part of why most GM polls never get close to passing is exactly this... each candidate's friends only votes for them, and then either ignores the other active polls, or votes no because they think that will help their friend pass somehow. So, vote fairly, and for those you feel will be fair, even-tempered, and competent, not for all your friends, or for anyone in your location - we're voting for people, not a government.

Why do you see what I say in negative sense?. You could also see it as: "An asian GM would bring different ways of thinking" or "An European could speak other languages". By the way I should have made the difference between Narus who is Spanish speaking and all other GMs, I do apologize for that. Speaking other languages than English is very important to me as TMW has a lot of players who speak it ... let's say approximatively. GM do not represent, of course, their government or even people. They become GMs with their own Culture though. I do love northern and southern american culture but I want now a GM with a different one; It is game' interest.
On the second point you raised I totally agree. I am sad that a lot of votes are made according to guts more than to mind. If I thought this way, I would not have voted yes to yours, and I would vote yes to Chicka, saying "I vote yes 'cause she's a nice person". I am angry too because "common sense" seems to disappear from this little community, because Crush was obliged to make his post and because of your first poll invalidation for sockpuppeting which leads me to wonder about these polls significance.

Antoine Houdar de La Motte wrote: C'est un grand agrément que la diversité :
Nous sommes bien comme nous sommes.
Donnez le même esprit aux hommes,
Vous ôtez tout le sel de la société.
L'ennui naquit un jour de l'uniformité

It is a great pleasure to have diversity:
We are nice as we were to life brought.
When you give men the same thought,
You remove all salt from the society.
Someday boredom was born from uniformity.

Soooo?
You need a indonesian GM *_-
we never got a GM at the south east :l
but i don't think i know a guy good enough :L

cardmaster wrote:Soooo?
You need a indonesian GM *_-
we never got a GM at the south east :l
but i don't think i know a guy good enough :L

I know at least two that could be nice GMs. The problem is their recent availability. This should not be a problem if there were more than 5 GMs...
I will not nominate anybody until Platyna's 5 Gm's rule and that an important poll hold, not to make them fail because of voters' attitude (cf. mrgrey's post).

Nard: I don't see what you said in a negative sense - on the contrary, I agree that GMs from more areas would be a very nice thing. Like I said, though, I very strongly disagreed with your thoughts that future GMs should Only be picked out from other areas. This just doesn't work with the fact that polls are made by players, voted on by players, and are somewhat of a popularity contest.

I surely wouldn't be opposed to more GMs, and if they're from other, less represented regions, even better. But also keep in mind, as is we (the GMs) do discuss most big issues that come up, and already we get a little divided at times due to personal opinions, tough decisions, etc. Too many GMs and we would have a hard time ever coming to an agreement that suited everybody.

Culture is a great thing, and I surely wouldn't complain about someone from a much different background being nominated... but, I believe these votes are not about culture, or where you're from. They are about what the players think of about you, as a player, and how responsible you are in their eyes. This opinion can change greatly over time, so you shouldn't feel discouraged if once you do not get the votes... Look at my 3 GM polls lol... my first one failed terribly, the second was sockpuppeted, etc.

Sorry for the novel here, what I'm really saying is this, Nard: If a good player from a less represented region is nominated, and gets the votes, that is awesome. But, for one thing players from this continent probably wouldn't feel very inclined to vote yes, if nobody from here can be nominated. For another thing... The GMs from this continent got the required votes from people who live all over, not just friends from our areas.

Grey, you know: ideally it is like you say. Practically, this is a vicious circle:

-many smart people who are not native English speakers and don't perfect in it prefer not to speak in forums and get ridiculed.
-this leads to the specific climate on forums, who makes some European people alienated
-many smart people from Europe have NO RIGHT TO VOTE despite being active players, who are very attached to the community, unlike kiddies who are not ashamed to spam with one-line posts.
-native English speakers created a pack, who has veeery American style, which can be unbearable for European. People who can't tune in are, well, not the people they will vote for.
-you need a ridiculous amount of votes, judging from amount of people who are actually active, so ONLY THE MAJORITY can win.
- unlike the good intentions of grey, people will not vote if they feel there's too many GM's. Nothing's weird with it, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT there is often 3 GM's at once, why should they care in other hours there is like... none.
-no one votes for any European? no problem.


Well. I only write it because I feel I am friends with some people from North America, and you know I am not unreasonable or hostile... I hope you'll try you understand when not seeing it as a win/lose argument. I am afraid many people have NO IDEA how big cultural differences are, and by this they just can't see having all GM's from one world area is not fair.

I can understand the point on a good argument, but lets not rob the spot light from Chicka,
this is a forum to discuss if she would make a good gm! Nothing more.

The other arguments would and will be addressed by the ghp.

Feel free to cut the thread out,to another one, afaik you have the tools to.

If it were up to me, any player who had been around a while would be able to vote. Still, this isn't really an ideal thing when the voting is done by forum. Doing the vote in game would not work out so well, as many old players have old alts not associated with them... and nothing to stop them from signing in on a different time of day with a different ip and voting again.

Removing the post requirement would make it easier for those players to vote... but then, as you've seen in previous polls, there are a lot of vengeful types who will use as many alt accounts as possible to discredit someone, or vote no for them.

To some extent, the users you mention who can't vote did have the option to use the forum in all this time, and they chose not to (with good reasons, maybe, but still). I'm not trying to make it out to be hopeless here... I'm simply asking, what would you say would be a more fair way to solve the problem?