The official server flamewar topic

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nech
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by nech » 08 Mar 2019, 21:02

blackrazor wrote:
07 Mar 2019, 11:23
In another example, even though Elven ripped an already existing program, the Ragnork Online emulator, eAthena, into a virtual world creator, that is not the same as creating a living and breathing and functioning virtual world and managing and nurturing its community over time. That is really hard and ongoing work, which requires a whole different skill-set, and which was done by Platyna.
wrong again

TMW was founded 2004, platinum became host 2007, platyna reee'd out of everything once katze became GM 2008

bjorn and elven were active this whole time, and yes on eathena too

who was it you were saying abandoned the project again

aside a few months of platinum hosting, everything you saw when you first joined platinum 2007 was from animesites

get off my lawn

and what the fuck that sugarcorgit log is disgusting

I can't believe they let platyna come crawling back 2009

I can't believe she immediately reee'd out again over sugarcorgit of all people

I can't believe it took the new meek geeks three years to run
Freeyorp101 wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 05:06
I have no interest in subjective terms
oh wait the nerds had the same social skills
Platyna wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 03:00
I do require all the unauthorized copies of my data to be returned to me
wow it must be hard not being respected for community service

"Even if you would die in horrible pain, after 3 months no one would remember."

katze and sugarcorgit did more to build the community with their kindness than you ever did with your prize bribes.

eat hot karma, and

let

it

hurt
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 08 Mar 2019, 22:07

Hey Blech, why don't you type that way on your real forum account? Coward. Normally, e-sad-sacks such as yourself only have e-peen online, but in your extra-yellow case that is not enough, and you have to stealth alt as well, in order to get it on. You're nothing but a ghost, a shell, a mirage. Of what are you afraid? Why hide? Forum ghosts are 10 pounds of sad in a 5 pound bag.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 08 Mar 2019, 23:48

Freeyorp101 wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 05:06
I am sorry, but when I read you declaring that you are no longer willing to host TMW, so the servivce will move with Bjorn, but that you are "interested to still host my own TMW server, since there are quite a few people who wanted a fork", I cannot believe that it is your data. When I see you invoking the Platinum terms of service against Bjorn to force him to remove Jaxad, I cannot believe that it was anything other than Bjorn's account. When I read that the TMWC did talk to Bjorn himself, and concluded that you did not own the data, I cannot believe that it is your data.

If there is something similarly clear pointing the other way that I have missed, then I will re-evaluate the balance of probabilities. Until such a time, nothing has changed from my old assessment conducted many years ago. There was nothing legally wrong (I have no interest in subjective terms, you may say rude, disrespectful, or such as much as you like, but illegal is very much signing the Rembrandt) done by the TMWC.


---Freeyorp

When did I post I am not going to host TMW anymore?
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by nech » 09 Mar 2019, 00:09

:lol: so my little pal finally grows a pair!

what's the going rate for a useful paid minion now?

mere quiz items? a bargain! come one, come all, come aspiring autistic paymasters everywhere!

ever wanted your own razzle dazzle to say you were the fifth beatle?

act now for the perfect minion, snatch em now, forget em in three months, and they'll argue with their own strawman for six years straight!

really now kid you can get better than this :wink:

I've got a real nice christmas tree hat in my van, hop in and we'll talk rates
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 09 Mar 2019, 01:23

Blackrazor, I have some rule - I do never treat seriously anonymous people. If you are such a coward that you don't have a gut to sign what you write, you are no one.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Freeyorp101 » 09 Mar 2019, 04:01

Platyna wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 23:48
When did I post I am not going to host TMW anymore?
The precedent cited was from [2009-05-06 08:20 UTC, in "My resignation from being TMW host."]. In full:
Platyna wrote:
06 May 2009, 09:20
Dear All,

I was never hidding anything from the community, so I would like to tell you that I have given it some thought, and decided to resign from hosting TMW.

The reason is, that since we are no longer friends with Bjorn and I am no longer involved into the project, I have no motivation to sustain DDoS attacks and constant hax attempts. This sever runs since 1997 and users pay for the service not with money but with their gratitude and respect to the admin. Bjorn obviously stoped to pay for the service long time ago.

This is not revenge, any of you can sustain problematic situations for a friend but no one will like to have problems for some ungrateful stranger. At least I do not simply shut down everything like Ultramichy did, Bjorn is given a comfortable amount of time to move.

I gave Bjorn multiple chances to fix our relations, and to make an agreement to cooperate for the good of the project, he decided to not take advantage of them.

I am interested to still host my own TMW server, since there are quite a few people who wanted a fork, they may contact me via email platyna at platinum.linux.pl

Have fun and good luck all.
That particular divorce process was ultimately halted, as you know. However, in the days following the resignation notice, and before retraction, there had already been enough documented activity to serve as useful reference for [where everything would go, and expectations around ownership] in the event of such a split, even when Platyna was still interested in running a TMW instance of her own.
blackrazor wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 12:07
When was the last time Bjorn or Elven did any work on the game? Any contributions to the TMW Github? Any development at all? Any GMing? Any moderation? Any events? Any community outreach?
Firstly, inactivity does not confer ownership in any case.

Secondly, to provide the information anyway, bjorn was still reacting to events within the project. You can see bjorn (Purple) in GM logs in 2012-11-17 turning off pvp after it was accidentally left on after an event, for example. On the forums, bjorn was still removing swastikas, deleting pharmaceutical spam, reversing a ban on a user mistakenly banned by Crush (understandable and a rare mistake, as Crush was more active than every other moderator combined at the time), and individually banned seven distinct spam IPs in the months immediately preceding the move.
blackrazor wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 12:07
So basically, you are agreeing with me. Platyna used the program, and made the data her own. Elven and Bjorn have no say.
Not at all. I am restating what I said earlier: while I do agree that any argument of the form "output can be copied because the output is GPL" is clearly invalid, as the GPL does not say anything with regards to output, similarly any argument of the form "output cannot be copied because the GPL attributes or presumes ownership of output to be the host" is also clearly invalid, as the GPL does not say anything with regards to output.

From evidence posted until evidence arises to the contrary, I do believe bjorn ran TMW's official server from eathena@ account, hosted on platinum.edu.pl, assisted by others under special case-by-case exception from Platinum ToS that Platyna did have the right to rescind at any time. Assuming no extraordinary new legal precedent that would likely upset many at sdf.org among very many other places, this would mean bjorn retained ownership of the contents of the account.

I am not interested in whether anyone believes this was rude, disrespectful, a bad decision, an unpopular decision, or other such subjective things, only that full authority to make that decision existed. Everyone must form their own opinions about subjective, emotionally charged matters to their own satisfaction.
nech wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 21:02
platinum became host 2007
That was surprisingly informative, in many ways! I had been under the impression that Platyna started hosting some time 2006, as that is both what the wiki article about moving new hosts stated, albiet with a "(not exactly sure)" to indicate uncertainty, and commits attributed to Platyna in tmwa-server-data ran (alongside bjorn, Elven, and others of course) from 2006-02-22 to 2008-04-17. I'm not yet sure whether I should amend that article on the wiki to note that 2017-01-17 was the correct date, as it is in the Archive: namespace for having historical relevance.

The note,
The Mana World News wrote:Notice: As of 17th of January, the server moved from animesites.de to server.themanaworld.org. We thank Ultramichy for hosting us for so long at no cost. The server is now hosted on platinum.linux.pl, a server which supports nonprofit initiatives.
does seem much more consistent with a move of hosts (and changing the domain name to something project owned rather than host owned to look more official and make future moves easier), as opposed to a fundamental change in ownership.

The implications in some of these old news articles are terrifying. To think that [the url the client was to use was once baked in], to something the project did not control.
nech wrote:
08 Mar 2019, 21:02
meek geeks
I don't think that's entirely fair. The possibility of changing hosting has been raised many times throughout the years, and it was clear this would be no easy task, as any replacement server would have needed to withstand no small amount of DoS:
#themanaworld.chat/2009-07-06.175125+1200NZST.txt wrote: (02:57:27) wombatism1: isn't there plans to make a TMW server that can handle the average dos attacks?
(02:57:46) Rotonen: tmwserv :P
(02:58:00) turmfalke_: shure feel free to buy one
(02:58:14) wombatism1: how about they do another donations drive
(02:58:27) wombatism1: that's how we got the current one that Platyna uses
(02:59:18) steinex: 164515 06 -!- Irssi: Starting query in freenode with Platyna
(02:59:19) steinex: 164541 06 <steinex> i could provide a *stable* server in berlin, germany. 100mbit/s uplink. it's housed at strato, one of the biggest dc's in europe.
(02:59:21) steinex: 164618 06 <steinex> i would be totally fine to give you an account or jail on that box for you to run the server...
(02:59:54) Platyna: Account or jail while it is being ddosed and eats shitload of resources. ;)
(03:00:27) Platyna: Like Bjorn was too poor to afford 40 euro/month for a dedic.
(03:00:39) steinex: so do you want it?
(03:00:52) steinex: i could have the shell ready in i few sec
(03:01:19) tapion: a question for the qoals patch.can QOAL know the password of the people that use his patch?
(03:01:24) wombatism1: if someone has a good server, they should run an unofficial game on it and get some credibility on realiability
(03:01:50) rod_ [ i=rodrigo1@186.12.41.125] entered the room.
(03:01:57) Rotonen: well, i don't think we're running out of potential servers
(03:02:06) Rotonen: just that platinum has by far the best terms of service
(03:02:16) Toksyuryel: What about this? http://conservancy.softwarefreedom.org/overview/
(03:02:28) Toksyuryel: Can that get us the money to pay for hosting?
(03:02:43) Rotonen: if we pay for it, we have to pay ourselves silly, really
When Kage later offered to pay for hosting himself, bjorn cited concerns for security:
#themanaworld.chat/2009-10-01.121434+1300NZDT.txt wrote: (12:59:04) Kage_Jittai: thorbjorn: like I said, I will gladly pay to have our forums hosted else where
[...]
(12:59:48) thorbjorn: Kage_Jittai: The problem at the moment is finding time to set it up and to make sure it's secure enough.
And on far too many occasions to list them all, Rotonen did praise Platyna for providing better hosting than would otherwise have been possible.

In any case, it is sometimes possible to not be interested in disagreements about subjective things and prioritize continuing to work together professionally for the good of the project.
people that I know can do better wrote:[redacted for the sake of civility]
As Jaxad would say, "...".

I do my best to not reference emotionally charged events for nearly six years, then in one moment I do post behind a spoiler with as many disclaimers and warnings as I reasonably could, and I get the feeling that I will suffer swift and lasting regret for ever doing so...


---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 09 Mar 2019, 06:58

Freeyorp101 wrote:
09 Mar 2019, 04:01
I am not interested in whether anyone believes this was rude, disrespectful, a bad decision, an unpopular decision, or other such subjective things, only that full authority to make that decision existed. Everyone must form their own opinions about subjective, emotionally charged matters to their own satisfaction.

---Freeyorp
That's very unfortunate. It matters. When Platyna ran the game, over 100 were online at a time, in a regular fashion. Now, just six years later, there are often zero online. I guess the players voted with their feet. The community didn't like it, either.

The heisting hoodlums, Frost and o11c, don't even want to be associated with the project anymore, and are not listed as advisers, even. Those were your saviors. Bully for you. (Edit: I see now that Frost is technically listed as an adviser, but he hasn't been on this board since Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:35 pm, so ... yeah. Same difference.)

TMWC actions directly led to a chain of events that destroyed player confidence in the game and its management, and basically wiped out the player population over time. The community was split, dispirited, and both servers wound up deserted of players. A house divided against itself cannot stand, and fall it did.

The online player population was in the single digits before Platyna, during Playna's rule it rose to over 100, and now, in her absence, it is back down to single digits. You can dance about with all kinds of fancy explanations, but Occam's razor tells us that the simplest most obvious explanation is the best. Kept "under her thumb" by the "cutter of hands", yet somehow just a host? Not bloody likely. Popular or not, she was damn good at what she did, which was to attract and retain a community of players to play her iteration of TMW on Platinum. She put her heart and soul into it. A lot of devs tend to undervalue the community of players, and what specific skill-set it takes to keep them, having instead a "only staff matters" "meritocracy" attitude; but Platyna put the players first, and they responded with loyalty. I remember well my own experience back in 2007; Platyna was the only staff I ever saw, and she was busy hosting Christmas give-away events, and making sure we all had what we needed. I have read that many staff did not feel the same way, but I am speaking as a player, which is also relevant.
Freeyorp101 wrote:
09 Mar 2019, 04:01
Firstly, inactivity does not confer ownership in any case.
---Freeyorp
Inactivity matters plenty, since you judged Platyna by the same standard. She wasn't available to reply or to fix for a period of some months, so you saw fit to depose her. I am simply exposing the blatant hypocrisy of that thinking by demonstrating that Bjorn and Elven were unavailable for longer, but because the "revolutionary mediocracy" (intentional) didn't like Platyna, they judged her by a different standard. As far as I am concerned, Platyna took provisional control of "eathena@ account" in the absence of Bjorn and Elven, in order to preserve the live project in which she had invested so much of her own time and creative energy. She has sole jurisdiction of the Platinum machine, she ran the TMW iteration on "eathena@ account" in the absence of Bjorn and Elven, so the output of data belongs to her. You can stand on your head, plant it in the ground, and wave your legs in the air like an onion, for all I care, and it will not change my opinion. You present a lot of your own opinion as if fact, but until a judge agrees with it, it will remain only that, opinion. In the meanwhile, one does not trespass onto another person's machine, and copy files against their permission, and keep and use them without a judge's ruling, except you TMWC have all done exactly that, in one form or another, either directly, or by association.

When O.J. Simpson took what he believed to be his, by force of trespass, he went to jail for that. You're not allowed to behave that way. Period. If you wanted those files so badly, then you should have petitioned the court for permission to take them, and not used unauthorized trespass instead.

Access to Platyna's machine was authorized for back-ups, roll-back restorations, and repository commits. It was unauthorized access and illegal trespass to misuse that access to heist data off the machine and use it elsewhere. If I give you the keys to my apartment, because you need a place to stay, that does not give you permission to rob the place. I guess she wasn't "merely a host" after all, eh? I get that you have legitimate dispute with this opinion, but the appropriate remedy is through the courts. You do not get to take matters into your own hands, and just take what you want, regardless of what you believe. O.J. Simpson found that out the hard way. Vigilante justice has no place in civilized society.

Bjorn and Elven were very clever. Frost and o11c actually planned and executed the data heist, Bjorn and Elven very discreetly merely nodded their consent from what they hoped was a safe distance. Why do you suppose that was? Just as others do not have the right to use your game account in most MORPGs I have ever seen (including TMW), Frost and o11c were not authorized to access Platinum in that manner, for that reason, no matter what Bjorn or Elven may have told them, and the rest of you TMWC are not entitled to benefit materially from those endeavors, until a judge rules in your favor.

Furthermore, Poland is an EU member, and in 2013 (at the time of the data heist), was subject to the EU's Data Protection Directive, which would have required TMWC to seek permission from the appropriate EU channels before moving player's personal data to the USA. So congratulations on breaching law internationally, as well.

P.S. I don't know why you keep dredging up 2009 IRC conversations to explain why Platyna was deposed in 2013, 4 years later. I actually have nech to thank for noticing this specifically; who knew a ghost could be useful? I checked pages 58 to 63 of this unwieldy monstrosity, and all of your IRC pulls from this most recent go-round are 2009. Heck, Frost and o11c hadn't even joined the game by then, let alone gotten themselves embedded in Platyna's GHP staff. Revisionist history at its finest, I guess.

P.P.S. One thing that is clearly demonstrated by the 2009 IRC conversations, is that Platyna was unwilling to let anyone except Bjorn have access to the eathena@ account, in fact, that was the source of many of the arguments, by your own observations. People were pulled off access to eathena@ account, by Platyna, for going even the tiniest bit off-script in their behaviors or duties, and Platyna clearly had, maintained, and exercised this power, as owner of the Platinum machine. From this, it clearly follows that Frost and o11c had access only for the limited purposes of back-ups, roll-back recovery, and repository commits, and were in absolutely no way authorized to do anything more with their access, certainly not to heist the data and move it to another machine, and that it was not the place of Bjorn or Elven to tell them otherwise, as per clear precedent already laid down by Platyna in dealing with eathena@ account access, going back to 2009. Frost and o11c knew this, as well, and even spoke of their own worries, should they have gotten caught in the process. So again, the proper remedy would have been for the TMWC to petition the courts for their copyright claim, knowing full well that vigilante trespass was not permitted on Platinum's eathena@ account, by order of Platyna, the undisputed owner of the machine. The improper remedy was to take whatever you wanted regardless, by whatever method, by whomever's access, and TMWC is not entitled to profit from that, until a court might rule in your favor.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Freeyorp101 » 10 Mar 2019, 10:11

I don't think there would be any new evidence that would be hidden from me during that time, but as you wish. Let's talk about my years.
blackrazor wrote:
09 Mar 2019, 06:58
Access to Platyna's machine was authorized for back-ups, roll-back restorations, and repository commits.
I gave Frost access.

Platyna did not impose any such conditions when I contacted her for Frost's account sharing exception (EDIT: on 2012-03-30), nor did I impose any of my own.
frost/2012-04-01.log wrote: (01:30:24)<Freeyorp> All seems good, send you me your public key and I'll add you
(02:06:33)<Frost> Cool!
(02:06:34)<Frost> [SSH key data redacted]
(02:06:34)<Frost> [SSH key data redacted]
(02:06:34)<Frost> [SSH key data redacted]
(02:07:19)<Frost> I would really like a bit of training or something before I have confidence in doing anything on there.
(02:07:50)<Frost> If I want to screw up a server, I can do that at home perfectly fine without breaking things for others.
(02:09:07)<Frost> "training" can be whatever you think I should know in order to not muck things up. :)
His caution was appreciated, but he learned fast.

In case there was any doubt about authority over the account, or in case there was anything that was forgotten, not conferred, or unable to be conferred through our chain of succession, that was why Elven, bjorn, Jaxad, and I were all contacted. Everyone assented.

blackrazor wrote:
09 Mar 2019, 06:58
Inactivity matters plenty, since you judged Platyna by the same standard. She wasn't available to reply or to fix for a period of some months, so you saw fit to depose her. I am simply exposing the blatant hypocrisy of that thinking by demonstrating that Bjorn and Elven were unavailable for longer, but because the "revolutionary mediocracy" (intentional) didn't like Platyna, they judged her by a different standard. As far as I am concerned, Platyna took provisional control of "eathena@ account" in the absence of Bjorn and Elven, in order to preserve the live project in which she had invested so much of her own time and creative energy. She has sole jurisdiction of the Platinum machine, she ran the TMW iteration on "eathena@ account" in the absence of Bjorn and Elven, so the output of data belongs to her. You can stand on your head and wave your legs in the air for all I care, and it will not change my opinion.
Inactivity does not confer ownership. Inactivity might be reasonable motivation to move, and might cause such a move by the owners, however.

With that said, this "provisional control" theory is quite interesting. Thank you.

Believing one can take "provisional control" in the absence (though bjorn was still around) of the account holder might explain why both parties felt the eathena@ account was theirs by March 2013. It would also explain the events of very late 2012, when Platyna tried to use the long broken controller scripts on the eathena@ account.
gm.log.2012-11 wrote: [2012-11-17 16:56:12] 009-1.gat(58,41) Platyna(2004123) : @broadcast In like 20 minutes I i will try to restart the server for the event. I may break it as someone broke the control scripts I have written...
The eathena.sh script and eathena-monitor in general has a history of breaking things and data corruption. Even before my time running the servers, bjorn was already running each server individually within loops in GNU Screen. Though at times, he ran the map-server under gdb when Jaxad, fate, or peavey needed to troubleshoot what the latest thing going wrong with the then new magic system was. Over time, the process of running the servers evolved: I created scripts that automatically took backup snapshots immediately before starting, added locking restart loops, and much later, Frost moved from GNU screen to tmux. I don't think anyone was trying to use the monitor, even The Alternate World ran a similar setup to us. (Maybe meway tried using the monitor on his own server at some point, but he was also once insane enough to run tmwAthena as root...)

Luckily, the monitor hard failed rather than potentially running into one of its many dangerous soft failure conditions. There had not been a monolithic top level save/ directory [since 2011]. Each server needs to be run under its own working directory (to be able to see eg. world/map/save), or it would refuse to start, saying that it could not find the save data. eathena-monitor had not been updated to use the proper working directory, since nobody used the old scripts, and so nothing happened. Everyone was able to bring things back to normal. bjorn even cleaned up after Platyna's celebration that followed as eg. PvP was left on, and spawned monsters were strewn everywhere that were making areas impassable.

(Come to think of it, the 2011 save/ move might finally explain something that has always perplexed me. In the days immediately after the move March 2013, Platyna thought that the save files had been deleted, somehow, and made many posts about how they were "wiped out" or "gone". Eventually she noticed that they were still there, and ran her own copy on themanaworld.net from April. Unperturbed, people switched to complaining about how guilty the TMWC must have been to (by using a standard tool like rsync...) leave files behind instead. c'est la guerre.)


With that said, I'm quite nonplussed about how you might imagine that even if one legitimately could and did take "provisional control" of an account, that this would imply taking exclusive ownership of its contents, to the extent that even the original account owners may not make a copy. Are you serious?

To try to construct a small test case again, consider the following hypothetical:
  • Bob founds a project 2004. A script that displays a poem which changes each day.
  • Alex runs a server at anime-fanclub.example.
  • Bob is friends with Alex, so Alex gives Bob an account on his anime-fanclub.example server to serve his poetry from.
  • By 2007, Bob's project has produced quite a lot of poetry, so Alex wants Bob to move on. Bob gets an account at free-shells-for-nonprofits.example, a server hosted by Carol, and continues to serve poetry from there.
  • In 2012, Bob has been away for a while, so Carol assumes "provisional control" of the poetry service account to try to fix some typos that had had turned up. Bob drops by to fix up a few things, which were done less than ideally, a few hours later.
  • Early 2013, Bob and Carol are no longer friends, so Bob copies off his poetry script, and continues to serve linguistic wit from a virtual server on Azure.
Would you say that Bob acted unreasonably? Would you say that he did "trespass onto another person's machine, and copy files against their permission, and keep and use them without a judge's ruling"?


EDIT: Added mention of the exact day that Platyna gave assent to share the eathena@ account with Frost.


---Freeyorp
(09:58:17) < tux9th> Freeyorp: your sig on the forums is kind of outdated
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by WildX » 10 Mar 2019, 11:37

Happy 6 years anniversary (yesterday). It's almost like it's too late and we should just put this all behind, eh?
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by blackrazor » 10 Mar 2019, 14:16

@WildX I'll celebrate when TMW / Evol Fusion is up and running, with fresh new data files, a fresh start, and hopefully an end to this karmic death spiral. I am assuming it will use fresh data files, and that the TMW Platinum legacy server will be retired at that point. Here's hoping.

@Freeyorp It doesn't matter what you (or others) told Frost. Platyna made it clear, from those 2009 IRC logs, what the access rules for eathena@ were. Limited to Bjorn as much as possible. Don't go off-script, or bye bye access. Arguments notwithstanding. From your own observations, I might point out. Platyna didn't need to rehash it yet again, when you contacted her. You all already knew the ground rules for eathena@ access, from all the drama you pulled out of the 2009 IRC logs.

Since Frost @TMWC was not authorized to access eathena@ in that manner, to heist data and move it to another machine, of which he was well aware, it amounts to intentional criminal vigilante trespass. If Frost @TMWC wanted those files, the correct remedy was to ask Platyna if those actions were within his access permissions, and failing that, to petition the courts with his copyright claim.

Frost @TMWC also had to seek permission from the appropriate EU channels, in order to move player's personal data (email addresses, usernames, passwords) from Poland to a non-EU jurisdiction, such as the USA. In 2013 (at the time of the data heist), Poland was subject to the EU's Data Protection Directive.

It's very simple. You think you own something, and a court might agree with you, or not. We both have our opinions, but it is the judge's opinion that will decide it. But, you never have a right to take extrajudicial action, to trespass onto other person's machine, against their permission, and take it in a manner that you are not authorized, by the person owning that machine. Your remedy, to enforce your copyright claim, is through the courts. Do you understand this, or not?

It's like if the bank loses 300 of my dollars. I don't have the right to hold up the bank for 300 dollars in order to get my justice. If the bank won't give it back, then my remedy is through the courts. Also see the O.J. Simpson robbery case. Maybe if he had gone to the courts, he would have won back those items. But because he took them by force, he went to jail instead. Vigilante justice has no place in civilized society.

P.S. I would say that Bob cannot get Tom to do it for him, without the permission of Alex, the entity granting permissions and the scope of those permissions, on his machine.
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Platyna » 11 Mar 2019, 17:54

The fact I wrote (in god-damn 2009 :D) a post that I am leaving doesn't mean I left. The matter was solved and I stayed. So using it as an argument that I left the project, if I led it 4 years more after this date is total idiocy. :-) Before Platyna: 4 players online, during Platyna: 100 players, After Platyna: 2 players. If you care about this game then return my files to me, because I am the only hope of its survival, you reigned 6 years, and it took you 1 year to kill the player base according the archive.org. When your silly power trip began the player base dropped instantly. TMW history is very similar to Apple one. Yes, Steve Jobs was a jackass, and maybe I am too, but he had the strength, personality and vision that was bringing people to the project, same as I do. I was here during the ups and down, and your Stealing Committee dissolved itself and ran away at the first sign of problems. A person who made me the Borg Queen title icon said that I am like a Borg Queen not only by my personality but also because I bring order to chaos - I do bond all TMW people together (and it wasn't me who popped out with whole "Borg Queen" idea, that were the players). People shown you, with their legs, that they prefer evil Platyna instead of bunch of "nice" guys who, maybe have some coding skills, but they do lack the leader's personality. Especially your communist regime and "accounting company management style" was fun to watch while the fun lasted. Now it isn't funny anymore because the project is dying.

PS. According to Platinum rules ANY person accessing the accounts on Platinum has to be authorized by me, Freeyorp, so you had no right to give anyone access without my permission. These rules are unchanged since the Platinum Linux Non Profit Servers' foundation in 1997, and you all were well aware of them, as you need to accept these to access the account. Platinum is a good example of my management skills, it was founded 22 years ago, it is almost 1/4 of century, in Poland, where "Internet" was some word heard in hacker movies, by a kid, who had no resources and no money.
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Platyna
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Re: joke of the day!

Post by Platyna » 13 Apr 2019, 21:55

"TMW is still alive." - a good one. :-D

All the years of my work down the drain, nothing to celebrate at all.
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WildX
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by WildX » 13 Apr 2019, 22:39

Development is going great, we are on track for a release in the Autumn. Thanks for checking in! Have a look at the test server if you want to fully experience some of the new content.
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Reid
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Re: The official server flamewar topic

Post by Reid » 16 Apr 2019, 23:16

:lol:
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
-- Ford Prefect
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Platyna
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Censorship is the only thing that manages to thrive here.

Post by Platyna » 17 Apr 2019, 02:06

I wrote several posts in last two weeks, all relating to the topic, and each of them was deleted, nice. Looks like you want to prevent all of 5 active users from hearing the truth, for example how did you wasted years of my work. You can delete this too, but I will repost it.
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