Mountain map - new work for quest/npc/monster creators

Content and general development discussion, including maps, quests, and server code from the development team.
ziolive
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Post by ziolive » Tue Sep 05, 2006 6:44 pm

Mountains is the most difficult map to create for this game cause the top/front view of this game is particular : You can show plane floor, floor going up but not the floor going down.

in many game the mountains are impassable.

So i have a solution, i will send draws soon.
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Post by Modanung » Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:56 pm

ziolive wrote:So i have a solution, i will send draws soon.
Drawings like these?
Image Image
(Click to enlarge)
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Post by ziolive » Wed Sep 06, 2006 1:23 pm

Your first draw will be ok for the big map of the game...

The map i'm thinking is like this :
Image

You create first many levels (many more than i done) and they become a big cliff, after it's just a way that turns in the mountains.

For the bottom of the mountains you can :
- put forest of firs (many, many firs), with the altitude you will put them less.
- put a waterfall with river and lake,
- put a big gulch ...
- entry for cave
- and of course a cave that cross all the mountain
- put a troglodit city (i've been draws too for this) with garden or fields on stairs or tray...

Image

for the color :
- in the bottom the floor is grass with firs,
- after he become muck and grass,
- and the cliff in grey/blue (like granit)

You put the way like you want but , of course, an adapted (not very different) tileset is necessary.
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Post by Modanung » Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:42 pm

Me like the concept
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Post by ziolive » Thu Sep 07, 2006 12:58 pm

Here, i design an exemple for a mountain town :
Image

it's could be a military protection for a cave that cross the mountain, with the time it became a town.

the town is build in levels :
- the first is for the poor people, and each fields
- second for merchand,
- the fortified door,
- the rich,
- the castle and the entry of the cave

all is in stone, with different architecture between poor people and rich..

Image

What do you think about ?
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Post by Pajarico » Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:43 pm

I like the building top-right on the last image.
About the mountain, i don't see any other solution because of the perspective of the game...
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Post by Alderan » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:04 pm

Modanung wrote:I think mountains are so much more then a bunch of stacked cliffs. A mountain does not consist of some rock islands in a desert connected by bridges. I think for a decent mountain map we need a different/better tileset and the action layer system. Both of those we do not have.
But hey, this map could be used. Albeit temporal. And Alderan, I tried to do something with this tileset and I respect you man... it's pretty unclear.
You are surely right. But primary goal was to create map with mountain tileset. I was happy when I was able to create one cliff. But there is one little bit higher - about 3 levels. Not creating really big mountains... But looks like the forum goes that way...
ziolive wrote: You create first many levels (many more than i done) and they become a big cliff, after it's just a way that turns in the mountains.

For the bottom of the mountains you can :
- put forest of firs (many, many firs), with the altitude you will put them less.
- put a waterfall with river and lake,
- put a big gulch ...
- entry for cave
- and of course a cave that cross all the mountain
- put a troglodit city (i've been draws too for this) with garden or fields on stairs or tray...

for the color :
- in the bottom the floor is grass with firs,
- after he become muck and grass,
- and the cliff in grey/blue (like granit)

You put the way like you want but , of course, an adapted (not very different) tileset is necessary.
Sound good. Unfortunatelly we don't have waterfall at this time as far as I know. Also the town is not possible now. But I guess I may create the "hill slaloom".
Image
I may create the map you want but without the town - means I may leave some green grass there and the town will be added later - when someone create a tileset for it...
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Post by ziolive » Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:56 pm

Color like that for the cliff ?
Image

and brown for the floor and the field, no grass but you can colorize the gras with the brown of your cliff and it will perfect.
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Post by Crush » Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:39 pm

i wanted to post this later when we get into phase 5 of the xartune area development, but well, you're forcing me ;)
Image

When the time has come i will add ramps for a transfer between levels. The mapping technique used by alderan is not the best at the moment because there is no way to stop the players from walking horizontal over the cliff edges:
Image
A workaround would be to find an excusion to block either the upper or the lower edge of the cliff. But that would look suspicious when done all the time. That is why we need the Action layer concept and/or the improvement of the collision layer system. Both are not possible with the current server because the server sided route finding must implement them too.

ziolive wrote:Color like that for the cliff ?
Image
Are you serious about that? I have never seen rocks in a dark teal color like that. it looks quite unnatural to me. Maybe you tried to make them grey? I don't like grey mountains. they look boring in my opinion.
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Post by Alderan » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:02 pm

Crush wrote:i wanted to post this later when we get into phase 5 of the xartune area development, but well, you're forcing me ;)
Image
Cool :-) Will you add something more to it or it may be allready used? I have one suggestion - the ground part - why don't you make transparent? Those bottom endings? It isn't necessary to make them directly on yellow rocks I think. They could be used on other surfaces too. Just for sure - the wall part are same (including color) as the clifs with grass so the walls may fluently change from green bottom to rock top and vice versa?
Crush wrote:When the time has come i will add ramps for a transfer between levels. The mapping technique used by alderan is not the best at the moment because there is no way to stop the players from walking horizontal over the cliff edges:
Image
Of course I know about this problem - the thing I wanted to show was the snake like "S" path - that it would be possible with your greenland tiles. If you take a look at the concept of the map, there are some S like paths. The piece itself wasn't ment to be really used somewhere. (But if so I would of course make the right part not accessible and avoid the layers problem)
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Post by Crush » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:15 pm

Alderan wrote:Cool :-) Will you add something more to it or it may be allready used?
I wouldn't suggest to use it yet. It is basically a prove of concept. There are a lot of things i would like to add and that might be changed for some reason. So you should wait until i finished the whole mountain region tileset and gave the ok to use it. but unfortunately i got a lot of things to do that got a higher priority. The mountain region tileset is still 3 tilesets in the future. See the Xartune development plan on the wiki
I have one suggestion - the ground part - why don't you make transparent? Those bottom endings? It isn't necessary to make them directly on yellow rocks I think. They could be used on other surfaces too.
The reason for doing this is that it gives the posibility to create a better transition to the ground texture. The cliff tiles on grass got some blades of grass that cover them. In this case i could remove some of the outlines in the lower area to create a more fluent transition to the ground rocks.
Just for sure - the wall part are same (including color) as the clifs with grass so the walls may fluently change from green bottom to rock top and vice versa?
sure they are. i try to create all my map tiles as modular as possible.
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Post by ziolive » Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:28 pm

Very good tileset. :o

but after we'll see variation needed for the big cliff cause they will cover big surface.

ok my grey is a little darker :? but for looking like mountains, rock is better grey with a little blue inside but that just my opinion, when we'll begin to have a map we can adjust that, i'm going to search graphical element in other game in pixart about mountains...

Actually she's really good.
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Post by Modanung » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:42 pm

Little edit:
Image
I think the colour sceme is wrong. It kinda fits in a flourishing forest enviroment. But mountains usually are kinda greyish and more barren 'n all. Also the floor and the walls need to be distinguishable, therefor I made them a slightly different colour and added some dirt in between of the floor rocks.
Remember this was done real quick, just with filters and selection tools.
Last edited by Modanung on Sat Sep 09, 2006 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Peacemaker » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:19 pm

ziolive wrote:Your first draw will be ok for the big map of the game...

The map i'm thinking is like this :
Image
Forum-Topic: http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... =7883#7883
Download: http://www.rainbowsix.org/temp/tmw/new_9-1.tmx.gz
Screenshot:
Image

another finished mountain map... I know, the looks boring and angular,... its because of the zooming-level ;). load into tiled and check it out at 100% :)
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Post by Alderan » Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:42 am

Modanung wrote:Little edit:
think the colour sceme is wrong. It kinda fits in a flourishing forest enviroment. But mountains usually are kinda greyish and less vertile 'n all. Also the floor and the walls need to be distinguishable, therefor I made them a slightly different colour and added some dirt in between of the floor rocks.
This looks more like mountains to me. But I guess that both versions (dark and light) could be used somewhere. There could also be some transition between them? Or something like possibility to put the dark on gren grass or... I guess you know.
Peacemaker wrote:another finished mountain map... I know, the looks boring and angular,... its because of the zooming-level ;). load into tiled and check it out at 100% :)
Some notes about the map
- in top part you repeat the orange rocks too much. As they are like in line I think it doesn't look very natural. Not even done by humans.
- the most right bottom clff has the same problem but with trees - maybe use different y coordinate for them or less of them.
- there may be some decoration in the orange ground. I know it isn't accessible but just to amuse players since they may see some orange ground from edges of the cliffs.
- but I like the map. I think that gameplay could be good on it.

So my suggestion about placing maps:
- this map may have open left top entrance and it could be linked to the right (now closed) entrance of green snake desert area map
- I'll add path going up from my map (at the beginning of this forum) and it could be linked to the path going down from this map.
- so the result will be two new maps connected to each other smoothly and to the rest of the world not smoothly but at least without NPC teleport.

Now my question: Shall we try to do that? Will it be added to the world then? If yes we will surely be happy to do that. If not why waste time. Someone who decide the adding and may add them (like has svn developer access) should answer.
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