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I think it's time for AGPL
Posted: 23 Feb 2014, 21:04
by o11c
Recently, this issue has come up again: it is perfectly legal for someone to take TMW's server code and content, modify them, and run a public server without releasing their changes, because users do not actually receive the server, the only talk to it over the network.
This exact problem is the reason that the AGPL was created:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.html
Therefore, I propose that new work on TMWA be licensed under the AGPL. This is an explicitly permitted use of the license.
Re: I think it's time for AGPL
Posted: 23 Feb 2014, 21:09
by 4144
o11c wrote:Recently, this issue has come up again: it is perfectly legal for someone to take TMW's server code and content, modify them, and run a public server without releasing their changes, because users do not actually receive the server, the only talk to it over the network.
This exact problem is the reason that the AGPL was created:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl-3.0.html
Therefore, I propose that new work on TMWA be licensed under the AGPL. This is an explicitly permitted use of the license.
Disadvantange of AGPL what you must publish all. If scripts AGPL too and exists some event with secret questions, it must be public too.
Also for server code to change license need ask all contributors, this mean all people from old eathena, and all who contributed to tmw server code.
Re: I think it's time for AGPL
Posted: 23 Feb 2014, 21:12
by Nard
GNU Affero General Public License (AGPL) version 3 wrote:This is a free software, copyleft license. Its terms effectively consist of the terms of GPLv3, with an additional paragraph in section 13 to allow users who interact with the licensed software over a network to receive the source for that program. We recommend that developers consider using the GNU AGPL for any software which will commonly be run over a network.
Please note that the GNU AGPL is not compatible with GPLv2. It is also technically not compatible with GPLv3 in a strict sense: you cannot take code released under the GNU AGPL and convey or modify it however you like under the terms of GPLv3, or vice versa. However, you are allowed to combine separate modules or source files released under both of those licenses in a single project, which will provide many programmers with all the permission they need to make the programs they want. See section 13 of both licenses for details.
Re: I think it's time for AGPL
Posted: 23 Feb 2014, 21:14
by o11c
4144 wrote:Disadvantange of AGPL what you must publish all. If scripts AGPL too and exists some event with secret questions, it must be public too.
That's acceptable if it comes to that, but I'm not sure if we actually need to.
4144 wrote:Also for server code to change license need ask all contributors, this mean all people from old eathena, and all who contributed to tmw server code.
No, it is explicitly permitted to link AGPL and GPL code into one executable ...
AGPL wrote:
Notwithstanding any other provision of this License, you have permission to link or combine any covered work with a work licensed under version 3 of the GNU General Public License into a single combined work, and to convey the resulting work. The terms of this License will continue to apply to the part which is the covered work, but the work with which it is combined will remain governed by version 3 of the GNU General Public License.
... and I have written enough brand new files in TMWA that I can relicense them.
Nard wrote:GNU Affero General Public License (AGPL) version 3 wrote:Please note that the GNU AGPL is not compatible with GPLv2. It is also technically not compatible with GPLv3 in a strict sense: you cannot take code released under the GNU AGPL and convey or modify it however you like under the terms of GPLv3, or vice versa.
TMWA is already GPL3+ (because it was previously GPL2+), so this is not an issue.
Re: I think it's time for AGPL
Posted: 23 Feb 2014, 21:34
by 4144
o11c wrote:4144 wrote:Also for server code to change license need ask all contributors, this mean all people from old eathena, and all who contributed to tmw server code.
No, it is explicitly permitted to link AGPL and GPL code into one executable ...
If link at same time AGPL and GPL look like it works like GPL, this mean all AGPL additions removed or not?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affero_Gen ... th_the_GPL
Re: I think it's time for AGPL
Posted: 24 Feb 2014, 00:17
by Crush
GPL and AGPL are incompatible. You can't take a work licensed under GPL and turn it into a AGPL project. So when you want an AGPL client- or server you need to rewrite from scratch. Unless, of course, you get the permission from all past contributors (and you won't get mine).
Re: I think it's time for AGPL
Posted: 24 Feb 2014, 01:45
by o11c
Crush wrote:GPL and AGPL are incompatible. You can't take a work licensed under GPL and turn it into a AGPL project.
I would not be doing that. I would be relicensing the code *I* wrote, which includes several complete files.
The boundary between GPL3 and AGPL3 licensed source is allowed to happen at file granularity.
Good idea
Posted: 24 Feb 2014, 15:54
by Hello=)
IMO this idea sounds nice: "usual" GPL does not really handles cases where someone takes source, modifies it, puts on their own server but never distributes server binaries. In this case they also do not have to distribute source. So GPL does not really works well for server software if you care about private installations (which is somethint to consider for MMORPGs, obviously). AGPL on other hand takes care about this case.
Btw, same issue applies to server-side files, etc. So AGPL could be interesting option to consider to encourage sharing instead of private forks with closed server code, scripts, etc. Sounds reasonable, if you can sort out issues about licenses compatibility, old code, etc.
Re: I think it's time for AGPL
Posted: 24 Feb 2014, 16:10
by AnonDuck
I'm in the minority here, but after some thought I'm actually completely ok with people running closed-source servers. I just wish there were some BSD-like accreditation clause.
My thinking here is that TMW and TMWA are under constant development. Rather than coding themselves into a corner it'd be in the best interest of competantly managed downstream projects to push the best changes they've made upstream. Even if they do not do this it's still good exposure for TMW in the end, as it's unlikely they will be writing their own client from scratch. Keeping it GPL will help encourage forks, and forks are good.
Also, haven't we had enough licencing issues already?
Re: I think it's time for AGPL
Posted: 08 Mar 2014, 07:39
by wushin
well it would make everyone have to post their changes. which it would be nice to see what other forks are doing so we don't step on each others toes.
AGPL sounds even a bit more share and share alike. I can see how this would keep all of us more honest.