The Mana World Forums

[05:43] <_Cordo_> Why does Time have to be the only metric of value?
[05:45] <_Cordo_> Why not include the metric of aesthetics, usefulness to a player as either the metric of value, or one of the metrics?
[05:46] <_Cordo_> For example I would pay more for a 375+ damage causing blacksmith axe than for a 115 damage causing bone knife.
[05:47] <_Cordo_> I have more use for that which helps eliminate mobs than that which does not.
[05:49] <_Cordo_> I understand that seems to come back to an argument of based on time as well. I can agree it may be up to a point. Another aspect of it is simply status, recognition as being a grizzled old warrior, one that dispatches mobs with vitriol.
[05:50] <_Cordo_> It's aesthetics, usefulness to a player being used as a metric of value.
[05:51] <_Cordo_> Another example, herbs. Wizards likely would pay top dollar for herbs. It is a pain to go grubbing around for them. Yet they sell for a meager 1 gp.
[05:52] <_Cordo_> But my suggesting another model is unbalanced?
[05:53] <_Cordo_> Sorry, I would bundle herbs up in say bolts of 50/100/150 and sell them for say 100, 150,20gp each respectively.
[05:54] <_Cordo_> oops, s/ 20 / 200
[05:54] <_Cordo_> If not that, then i would hold wizards hostage over pricing on herbs, maybe ask 400 for a bundle of 50.
[05:55] <_Cordo_> I mean hey, if you use time as the only metric, you'd consider grubbing for herbs of great value.
[05:57] <_Cordo_> That does not happen, or if it does amongst players it is not greatly or widely discussed
[05:58] <_Cordo_> Of course the unbalancing comes in with being able to go to any market, buy herbs for 1 gp each.
[06:01] <_Cordo_> Okay, 34 others at least appear here. I will be quiet, wait to see if there is more input.

[07:13] <veryape> _cordo_: hrm, other metrics are all in place imo. Just look at the rares market etc. Also people will go thru great lengths of collecting herbs to be able to dye things etc
[07:14] <veryape> _cordo_: so between players there is something like this, the npc's though...
[07:14] <_Cordo_> And that's why I do not understand using time alone as a metric.
[07:15] <_Cordo_> But wushin suggests that it may be.
[07:16] <_Cordo_> The desire for _professions_ as wushin presents seems to have players still relying on npc to make items. This really seems not to alter anything in game.
[07:18] <_Cordo_> My thought, have an npc _teach_ a player to create say a raft. "Hey, to make a raft gather x of squrrel pelts for lashing cord, z of logs to create the floor and mast, then y of cotton to create a sail."
[07:20] <_Cordo_> Have different npc teach different aspects of that if you want. Then, each player can choose to learn the whole raft building, just sail building, just lashing, just raft floors and mast making.
[07:21] <_Cordo_> That would give a dynamic economy because each player would get randomize chance on quality of their work. And I have seen that randomizing can be done in the scripting.
[07:22] <_Cordo_> So, with varying quality accordingly to skill, material, each player could charge as much gp as a _market_ would bear out.
[07:24] <_Cordo_> It could also be done with guilds, say an archer guild, a wizard guild, warrior guild. Each class hired out by other players to help in quests. Each player from classes could be ranked, paid gp accordingly. If you really want use time as a metric, there's a really good way I think.
[07:25] <_Cordo_> And guilds could offer benefits. For example they could pool weapons, other materials. Each player could choose being in a guild and offering say 10% of what they are paid for quests as _dues_.
[07:26] <_Cordo_> Players could also remain independent, hire out if they want. This offers valid and balanced competition for all.
[07:27] <Chinese_xym5366> oh game rule?
[07:28] <Chinese_xym5366>
[07:28] <_Cordo_> I suggest rafts because I think players may prefer exploring the seas in game. There's more what could be added as content. Players could also learn skills such as navigation, merchanting, basics of seamanship.
[07:29] <_Cordo_> I think so Chinese. *chuckles*
[07:30] <_Cordo_> Players could learn exploring. they could _find_ different areas of the large map this game's world alleges to have.
[07:32] <_Cordo_> As it is players have three basic areas, with a limited amount of quests. What I'm suggesting is a means to open things up, maybe inspire folks to create more quests. There could be different mobs in other lands. There may be npc in other lands what teach other skills.
[07:33] <Chinese_xym5366> yes, _Cordo that is a better if the game looks like the great navigating era..
[07:33] <_Cordo_> More skills equates to more value for each player. This in turn drives a dynamic economy.
[07:33] <Chinese_xym5366> the game looks like the earth map.
[07:34] <Chinese_xym5366> we can play and quest the earth map.
[07:34] <Chinese_xym5366> to exchange wherever
[07:34] <_Cordo_> http://is.gd/VCEsIG
[07:35] <_Cordo_> Exactly what I'm saying. The map/s here in this URL suggest there are far more than our current three areas.
[07:35] <_Cordo_> But we remain bound in three areas alone.
[07:36] <_Cordo_> It has been what ten years?
[07:36] <_Cordo_> We're not able to get people motivated to create, to explore?
[07:37] <_Cordo_> So I ask, I read, I explore, I research
[07:37] <_Cordo_> Keep coming up to the same issues and to me it seems a stonewall.
[07:37] <Chinese_xym5366> we can exchange at the map
[07:38] <Chinese_xym5366> like the great navigating era
[07:39] <Chinese_xym5366> but your map looks like the Mediterranean(Sea)
[07:39] <Chinese_xym5366> It's not a map of the world.
[07:39] <_Cordo_> Yep, I'm hoping we can grow the game more so. That way we get more players. Not my map, it was created by others.
[07:40] <Chinese_xym5366> oh..
[07:40] == toams [~tommi@2a02:1810:b897:d100:38e9:5a99:34bb:5ae8] has joined #themanaworld
[07:41] <Chinese_xym5366> but a map of world needs too much people to work?
[07:41] == toams_ [~tommi@2a02:1810:b897:d100:38e9:5a99:34bb:5ae8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
[07:41] <_Cordo_> Yes it does and I think we can get these people to do things.
[07:42] <Chinese_xym5366> oh
[07:42] <_Cordo_> But again it comes back to choice/s.
[07:42] <Chinese_xym5366> what?
[07:42] <Chinese_xym5366> what comes back?
[07:42] <_Cordo_> I do not mind creating story lines, drafting outlines which can be transfered to scripting.
[07:43] <_Cordo_> I did it with my wife and the help of a scripter
[07:43] <_Cordo_> We chose to do it.
[07:44] <_Cordo_> It took us about three or four days, around two to six hours a day, we created a good script/story to bring in a new weapon at Christmas. This was not used though.
[07:45] <_Cordo_> But it was our choice to create. We came together as a unit, as people creating and built something new. My wife did the graphics with another friend. She created a nice battle axe.
[07:46] <Chinese_xym5366> oh
[07:46] <Chinese_xym5366> good
[07:47] <_Cordo_> The only trouble we ran into was deciding how to let it _creep_ into the game fairly. We decided after a while, a month maybe it would be available via an npc for another side quest.
[07:47] <Chinese_xym5366> what feeling are you about the Minecraft game?
[07:47] <_Cordo_> Players could also sell the axe
[07:47] <_Cordo_> No opinion on it as I do not play it.
[07:48] <_Cordo_> My nephews do but I don't.
[07:48] <Chinese_xym5366> oh
[07:48] <Chinese_xym5366> but it looks like a good idea.
[07:48] <_Cordo_> Minecraft, or ...?
[07:49] <Chinese_xym5366> but their graphics is not good
[07:49] <Chinese_xym5366> Minecraft

[07:52] <Chinese_xym5366> Can you develop a artificial intelligence like it is able to write an article automatic...
[07:53] <Chinese_xym5366> so the game can use this way to automatically develop an article...
[07:54] <Chinese_xym5366> I am study this way now.
[07:55] <Chinese_xym5366> A coding is able to automatically develop some article by an AI
[07:55] <_Cordo_> Not sure it may be done in the scripting here. Again, I'm not exactly a scripter. I have a rough idea of it but it is not what I choose delving into wholeheartedly. I prefer building story lines.
[07:56] <_Cordo_> I write. *chuckles* Or try to at times.
[07:58] <_Cordo_> Or I do rural type odd jobs, clean gutters, split firewood, move firewood, help build sheds, barns, mow, garden, build fences, paint, wash dishes, sew, mend fences, clean roofs and so on ...
[07:59] <Chinese_xym5366> i think that an article is comprised by that on the basis of "dead" and "life"
[08:00] <_Cordo_> Speaking of living as that is, need to go again for a while. Need to attend to feeding the critters here.
[08:00] * _Cordo_ away off to feed critters, back in a bit
[08:00] * _Cordo_ away
[08:00] == You are no longer marked as being away
[08:00] == You are no longer marked as being away
[08:00] <Chinese_xym5366> ok
[08:00] * _Cordo_ away
[08:02] <Chinese_xym5366> oh he have some critters
[08:02] <Chinese_xym5366> that is good thinks. i don't have any critters.
[08:02] <Chinese_xym5366> good things*
[08:06] * Crazyk8e snores
[08:07] <Chinese_xym5366> i mean that both "dead" and "life" in an article like both "0" and "1" in the computer.
[08:09] <Chinese_xym5366> we can created an article by both "dead" and "life" like what the computer created a picture by both "0" and "1".
[08:11] <Chinese_xym5366> neural network
[08:18] <Chinese_xym5366> we can use both "0" and "1" to correspond some what it's a couple.
[08:19] <Chinese_xym5366> like both "dead" and "life" and both "black" and "white" and both "good" and "bad" etc.
[08:19] <veryape> _cordo_: time is the only metric that is useable in everyday items
[08:19] <veryape> if it is easy to aquire it's value will be low
[08:19] <Chinese_xym5366> he is to work now
[08:19] <veryape> even if it is in high demand
[08:20] <veryape> the price will not be super high
[08:20] <veryape> well ok
[08:21] <Chinese_xym5366> yes
[08:21] <Chinese_xym5366> not super high
[08:22] <Chinese_xym5366> but what is easy?
[08:22] <Chinese_xym5366> easy is what?
[08:30] <Chinese_xym5366> i think i can do anyting but it needs i have too much time or money or space.
[08:30] <Chinese_xym5366> O:-)
[08:46] * _Cordo_ back
[08:47] * _Cordo_ had whip some rope line, catch a dog
[08:47] <_Cordo_> Well, you continue to point to time. I would contend skill could apply as a metric as well.
[08:48] <_Cordo_> For example even if it does not seem to, it requires skill to forage/farm for items.
[08:49] <_Cordo_> Players already gain gee, _experience_ from killing mobs.
[08:49] <_Cordo_> So, why can that _skill_ as in gained _experience_ not be applied as a metric?
[08:50] <_Cordo_> It still remains fair as every player has equal choice, equal ability to attain skill.
[08:50] <_Cordo_> You can play and kill mobs or not.
[08:50] <_Cordo_> Choose not to, you choose not having skill to sell your services/goods.
[08:52] <_Cordo_> And that would further expand and carry over into similar to what else I suggest. And no, I'm saying what I suggest is correct, the _only_ way.
[08:53] <_Cordo_> I'm just saying maybe we all ought to start looking at other metrics, as with the one we currently seem to use, we are stagnated. And if you use time as that metric currently, it is what is stagnated.
[08:55] <_Cordo_> Hm, farmers often grow several various crops. For example they may have corn, beans, potatoes, wheat, grapes, apples. The point for the farmer is if one crop fares not so well, at least he has other crops to help offset the difference.
[08:56] <_Cordo_> There are different metric _hubs_ as been suggested as terminology. Why not use all we can, like farmers?
[08:58] <_Cordo_> Many hubs would also keep balance. Players could choose varieties of paths/skills/quests, items and so on to use as barter or for economics. Values could be set by a truly free and dynamic economy then.
[09:00] <_Cordo_> To me saying time is the only metric involved in game seems to be a stonewall tactic. Sorry, don't much care for being stonewalled.
[09:01] <_Cordo_> There are clearly other metrics available in game, skill being one, access to items another, quantity of items could be as well. The _rares_ put into the game are not really rare at all when most anyone can get them.
[09:03] <_Cordo_> And that kind of decimates values, leaves no room for incintives. "Oh gee, I'll get a rare item! Ha! Everyone has a rare item, wow, bummers it's not so rare after all."
[09:04] <_Cordo_> That's similar to college degrees. Used to be a college degree was valued. Then, the degrees became too easily attained. Everyone has degrees or seems to, so degrees lose value.
[09:05] <_Cordo_> So why not use many metrics(crops metaphorically)?
[09:06] <_Cordo_> If you use only one, you have no real value it seems. If you have several, you open up more potential, more value.