Elements

[gumi]

new table, this time with no penalties

[Cassy]

There should be penelties for sure but I'd limit them to 50% damage.
Complete immunity against an element will get us into balancing troubles.

Btw what about the other elements?
I'd go for this:
Fire <-> Water
Earth <-> Air (incl. Thunder)
Holy <-> Dark
leaves alone Ice <-> Wood which looks a bit weird but shouldn't be a problem.

Or maybe:
Fire <-> Ice
Earth <-> Air (incl. Thunder)
Holy <-> Dark
Water <-> Wood

Each have 150% against the other element.
Attacking a water mob with a water attack should lower the damage to 50%.
That's pretty easy logic but not too boring.

[SDN]

Hmm, using elemental race/species instead of items enhancement is quite interesting. But I disagree with Cassy about 100% immunity to co-element damage.

There should be 2 types of damage dealt by a player or monster; neutral(base) + elemental(additional). So if a player attack monster that immune to his element, that monster only receive base damage form the player's str//dex/atk - monster's def/mag stats, and vice versa.

A sword is a sword, an arrow is an arrow, and claws is claws, no matter their wielder element is, as long as they made from hard materials, they still able to rip flesh in their own way, right? IMO, this is more fair game for warrior and archer from each race/species including human (neutral).

If you can add elemental stats to a player or monster, then you can make non flesh mobs like ghosts/spirits absorb damage if its base+elemental defense is far higher than the attacker's elemental stats. Thus makes base damage less effective to them but might/might not completely invincible to it (a dark element player may only dealt 1 base dmg to a ghost or even heal them if their stats approve the situations).

But the next question is, does mages capability restricted to their innate elements? For example, a logic that make a mage with water/ice element can never be able to learn fire based spells (like the one they use in Avatar The Last Binder series) unless in some special case (like the avatar). If yes, magic does not have base damage as it's usually use non-direct physical attack.

[Cassy]

But I disagree with Cassy about 100% immunity to co-element damage.

There should be 2 types of damage dealt by a player or monster; neutral(base) + elemental(additional).

You already answered why I don't like that

magic does not have base damage as it's usually use non-direct physical attack.

Unrelated to e.g. fire mages not being able to learn water spells (IMO we should do such a restriction anyway, but that's for a later discussion).

[SDN]

But I disagree with Cassy about 100% immunity to co-element damage.

There should be 2 types of damage dealt by a player or monster; neutral(base) + elemental(additional).

You already answered why I don't like that

This situations might happen too, Cassy. There are other game use this logic.

If you can add elemental stats to a player or monster, then you can make non flesh mobs like ghosts/spirits absorb damage if its base+elemental defense is far higher than the attacker's elemental stats. Thus makes base damage less effective to them but might/might not completely invincible to it (a dark element player may only dealt 1 base dmg to a ghost or even heal them if their stats approve the situations).

If that situations meets, a player must extract/add points to his innate elemental stats so that his is higher, equal or below the targets elemental defense stats. The he can dealt more base damage to co-elemental mobs.

[Travolta]

There should be penelties for sure but I'd limit them to 50% damage.
Complete immunity against an element will get us into balancing troubles.

Btw what about the other elements?
I'd go for this:
Fire <-> Water
Earth <-> Air (incl. Thunder)
Holy <-> Dark
leaves alone Ice <-> Wood which looks a bit weird but shouldn't be a problem.

Or maybe:
Fire <-> Ice
Earth <-> Air (incl. Thunder)
Holy <-> Dark
Water <-> Wood

Each have 150% against the other element.
Attacking a water mob with a water attack should lower the damage to 50%.
That's pretty easy logic but not too boring.

Ice is just frozen water, so the 2 should be the same. I like the Holy vs Dark idea, as much as I dislike the existense of "Wood" element, imo it sounds silly. Maybe the whole elements system should be as simple as possible. Fire, Air, Earth, Water, Holy and Dark (or some other name).
Fire spells cause either 25% or 50% to fire monsters, and 150% or 200% damage to Water elements etc.

If we have enchanted weapons, there could be a base (physical) damage + bonus damage dealt by the enchantment.

[Cassy]

Ice is just frozen water, so the 2 should be the same. I like the Holy vs Dark idea, as much as I dislike the existense of "Wood" element, imo it sounds silly.

I've been going through the mob lists and checking if there would be a use for Ice and Wood elements.

So for these mobs I'd make them rather Wood-based then Earth-based if we went for both elements.

Code: Select all

MauvePlant               | Wood
CobaltPlant              | Wood
GambogePlant             | Wood
AlizarinPlant            | Wood
CloverPatch              | Wood
Pumpkin                  | Wood
WhiteBell                | Wood
SpikyMushroom            | Wood
LogHead                  | Wood
EvilMushroom             | Wood
PinkFlower               | Wood

But we could also add them to Earth, I don't mind about that.

Ice/Water is a bit different:

Code: Select all

IceGoblin                | Ice
WhiteSlime               | Ice
RudolphSlime             | Ice
CandiedSlime             | Ice
Santaboo                 | Ice
SeaSlime                 | Water
AngrySeaSlime            | Water
SeaSlimeMother           | Water
SantaSlime               | Ice
IceElement               | Ice
IceSkull                 | Ice

E.g. Ice Element being a water-type looks weird IMO

[EJlol]

I dont mind seeing any of these monsters (with exception to the santaboo, which really is not ice or water based) to be water element honestly. Ice is (cold) water, I don't see any problems with that. And the Ice element doesn't fit with the Fire, Earth, Air, Water theme. Metal, Wood, Holy and Dark do. If you make Ice an element, you also must make lightning, poison etc an element.

[gumi]

Hmm, using elemental race/species instead of items enhancement is quite interesting.

Actually it would be both. Let me explain



Each race gets assigned an element:

Ether - Talponian
Water - Tritan
Fire - Ifriton
Wind - Sparron
Earth - Gispaan

But there will also be some elemental spells and weapons so it stacks. Let's say you are an Ifrition and you attack a water mob with a Fire Sword (we could say that sword has a 10% bonus against water). You will deal ((BaseDamage * 1.05) + (BaseDamage * 1.10))

And now for ice, wood, holy, dark. It was decided long ago that there would be hybrids so mobs can have 2 races.

We could say:

[SDN]

Wow, it will be awesome if you can do both race and item enhancement with that more complex element system. But what happen if Tritans using Fire Sword? Isn't there going to be some kind of restriction? Logically the fire sword will kill him gradually (like banshee) and or the sword dies in the end, because fire evaporate water and water extinguish fire.

[gumi]

I think it would be better without penalties

[SDN]

Well, i guess as long as there going to be a good explanation in game and everyone's agree with that, then no restriction it is.