The Mana World Forums

https://www.reddit.com/r/irc/comments/n ... _freenode/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27206838

https://www.vice.com/en/article/m7ev8y/ ... e-takeover

https://www.theregister.com/2021/05/19/ ... f_resigns/

What is the future of TMW's IRC infrastructure?
Please discuss.

//Status: Community-Discussion

Updated News

Kiwiirc project lead leaves because drama https://gist.github.com/prawnsalad/4ca2 ... 6791c61953

Freenode changes the policy https://github.com/freenode/web-7.0/com ... 16d46eeb43

Channel takeovers at Freenode https://www.devever.net/~hl/freenode_abuse

For those using Discord - this change is not relevant per-se.

It is meaningful for our IRC users.

All times are in UTC
2021-05-19 17:00 Decided by Freeyorp to book channels on libera.chat in case we end up migrating
2021-05-19 17:30 Channel #themanaworld created on irc.libera.chat as cautionary measure
2021-05-19 20:35 Channels #themanaworld-dev, #evol-dev, #themanaworld-art, #tmw-war, #themanaworld-event, #themanaworld-adults and the private TMW staff channel have been created and Freeyorp assigned as founder
2021-05-19 21:30 ManaDiscord and Sagratha now in both networks. This makes Libera usable, and a move possible anytime (The bot will relay messages between Discord and both networks in an ugly way)
2021-05-25 16:37 ManaDiscord and Sagratha are now identified to Libera.Chat services.
2021-05-28 20:00 The Mana World Team reunites at Three Fermi Land to deliberate.
2021-05-28 20:20 TMWT decides to remove the infrastructure from Freenode and switch to Libera Chat following the poll results.
2021-05-29 00:55 The last IRC bot should have migrated to Libera Chat.

DIscussion pending if we will move and if we do move, to which server we will go. OFTC still has a SPI advantage, while set up on Libera is more advanced.
EDIT: OFTC does not support SASL, so the bots cannot go there. (Both elanore/sagratha as ManaDiscord)

Wow, it's been a while hasn't it?

I think TMW should be on whichever IRC network is more popular and has more users. This makes it easier for new people or old friends to chat.

Privacy and such doesn't matter. TMW has already given that up in exchange for convenience/features by bridging the channels with Discord. Discord has an absolutely terrible privacy policy.

As an aside, the Discord bridge is why I no longer participate in TMW IRC personally.

On Wed, May 19, 2021, 21:00 Gumi wrote:

We might want to consider a move to OFTC since it's also hosted by SPI

I've added a poll; But feel free to drop comments like MadCamel and gumi did.

Remember, this is a community poll to aid the staff at deciding, and thus, it is not binding.

We still want to hear you, though. (Assuming you have an opinion on this matter, of course)

MadCamel wrote: ↑19 May 2021, 17:23

I think TMW should be on whichever IRC network is more popular and has more users. This makes it easier for new people or old friends to chat.

Privacy and such doesn't matter. TMW has already given that up in exchange for convenience/features by bridging the channels with Discord. Discord has an absolutely terrible privacy policy.

I agree, it could be useful to wait and see if the boycott of freenode is followed by the majority and how it impact our community in there.

For sake of /lusers; At this exact moment.

Seems like Libera.Chat will absorb successfully at least a fifth of Freenode's original size. (And they are already the seventhfifth biggest IRC network).

PS. Ubuntu IRC Council advised to migrate to Libera.Chat but remains undecided, having summoned the Community Council to make the final decision. EDIT: Ubuntu/CC has approved IRCC bill and they moved.

PPS. I do not personally think Freenode will fall to 2nd place for at least the next 30 days; That would require they shrinking over 50%. But it may be torn apart, specially if sponsors decide to withdraw.

But surely Mr. Lee must be willing to put a few thousand more bucks to make up for the withdrawing sponsors, right?

What about matrix? It has great support for bridges. So you can bridge the existing channels. Also matrix is free, open source and decentralized (and better than ever before with spaces having landed (https://matrix.org/blog/2021/05/17/the- ... space-beta))

Regards,
Ablu

gumi wrote: ↑19 May 2021, 21:14

On Wed, May 19, 2021, 21:00 Gumi wrote:

We might want to consider a move to OFTC since it's also hosted by SPI

I guess that "hostile takeovers" are harder to do to the SPI.

jesusalva wrote: ↑20 May 2021, 14:51

For sake of /lusers; At this exact moment.

Freenode 77k users connected
Libera.Chat 11k users connected
OFTC 17k users connected

Seems like Libera.Chat will absorb successfully at least a fifth of Freenode's original size. (And they likely are already the seventh biggest IRC network).

PS. Ubuntu IRC Council advised to migrate to Libera.Chat but remains undecided, having summoned the Community Council to make the final decision.

PPS. I do not personally think Freenode will fall to 2nd place for at least the next 30 days; That would require they shrinking over 50%. But it may be torn apart, specially if sponsors decide to withdraw.

But surely Mr. Lee must be willing to put a few thousand more bucks to make up for the withdrawing sponsors, right?

I doubt that the amount of users on an IRC network will help TMW to be known better. IRC is not meant to be an advertising platform. A free and stable IRC network would be fine (even a self-hosted one but considering development efforts and legal issues that can be too much).
Lazy kiddos will always opt out for discord (less setup hassle, more colorful thingies and RAM usage).

Ablu wrote: ↑21 May 2021, 11:08

What about matrix? It has great support for bridges. So you can bridge the existing channels. Also matrix is free, open source and decentralized (and better than ever before with spaces having landed (https://matrix.org/blog/2021/05/17/the- ... space-beta))

Regards,
Ablu

I tried it once, failed to have it set in less than 24 minutes, and gave up.

It seemed even more complex than IRC for me. But that was a while ago.

gumi wrote: ↑19 May 2021, 21:14

On Wed, May 19, 2021, 21:00 Gumi wrote:

We might want to consider a move to OFTC since it's also hosted by SPI

As for OFTC, my only complain is that it does not support SASL; So I am almost never authenticated.

Our bots are currently using SASL to authenticate, but I think they might be able to login using the username:password method.

[23:56:02] freenodecom [~com@freenode/staff] joined #freedroid
[23:56:02] ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] changed mode +o freenodecom
[23:56:02] freenodecom [~com@freenode/staff] changed mode +o freenodecom
[23:56:02] freenodecom [~com@freenode/staff] changed topic to "This channel has moved to ##freedroid. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies"
[23:56:02] <@freenodecom> This channel has been reopened with respect to the communities and new users. The topic is in violation of freenode policy: https://freenode.net/policies
[23:56:02] freenodecom [~com@freenode/staff] changed mode -v jesusalva
[23:56:02] freenodecom [~com@freenode/staff] changed mode -ov fluzz fluzz
[23:56:02] freenodecom [~com@freenode/staff] changed mode -v ChanServ
[23:56:02] *@ChanServ* freenodecom (freenode-placeholder-account) removed all 5 non-founder access entries.
[23:56:02] ChanServ [ChanServ@services.] changed mode +impsf-bb ##freedroid *!*sydney_bo@*unaffiliated/sydney *!*secret@*.cm-5-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl
[23:56:04] <@freenodecom> The new channel is ##freedroid
[23:56:10] freenodecom [~com@freenode/staff] left #freedroid

I'll be dropping my NickServ account and terminating my use of Freenode after moving TMW2 infrastructure to a less hostile IRC network.

PS. I might hold the NickServ account for the meeting but no longer after that. I did release all nicks and transferred +F flags to jak1, though, in case my account ends up getting dropped by Freenode.

Bye-bye freenode. I'd like to support the staff that left and agree with Mad Camel about Discord, though I still use IRC. This is really the only place I make exception for, but wish it were more privacy oriented.

IRC Migration

We are moving to Libera.Chat on IRC.

Game Chat, Discord Integration, et cetera are unaffected. All our bots have moved as well. For those whom do not use IRC directly, no action is needed.

There was not many votes on our community poll, but after witnessing with our own eyes a channel being taken over without any sort of warning or whatsoever, we have decided that Freenode no longer provides any sort of reliable operational stability.

We are NOT taking this decision based on rumors - both true and fake - which are circulating from both sides; We are taking this decision based on what we witnessed.

Therefore, we have settled to move all our infrastructure to Libera Chat, based among other things, on the community will.

This is a strictly technical decision; Operational stability has always been a priority for us, from backup to the choice of applications which are exposed to the public, like our wiki and forums backbone. IRC is no exception to this rule.

We also have decided to DROP the bridge which was maintaining a link between both networks for the reasons mentioned above. Therefore, users connecting to the old network WON'T be able to receive any support whatsoever. Our other bots have also withdrawn.

Also available at: https://www.themanaworld.org/news

List of other projects moving: https://gist.github.com/siraben/df534c3 ... 5956f0ca95