The Mana World Forums

There was idea to add some dangerous monsters into few places. Most notable candidates area could be:

1) Graveyard. In old good days Graveyard had Jack-O roaming it, also few fallens and zombies. With removal of all these GY generally turned into rather boring and safe grinding place for warriors that lacks excitement of danger. Do we come to MMORPGs to grind safe way, like washing dishes? Or maybe add some excitement and thrill? What do you think?

2) Hurns mines. They had two skulls near entrance. It's been annoying if you need iron ore, but also added some taste of adventure: you need to either outsmart skulls moving them away or ask someone around to deal with them, etc. Eventually they were used to level in cooperative way which been exceptionally dangerous but rewarding for low levels if they get it right. With their removal cave also became rather boring grdinding place without twist original version had. Maybe add two annoying pests back?

My own rationale behind idea is that TMW now turned into rather boring grinder that somehow lacks danger and excitement in most places. In long run it gets boring and ppl stop playing it. Maybe add some dangers in most boring place(s) for a change?

So what players think? Would you like or dislike these changes? Or maybe some new/better ideas? Whatever you think, we want you. Its bad idea to blindly land changes identified as potentially controversial, so make your voice heard.

I'll say again here so all can see... I'd like to see the original mobs returned to the GY, but put JackO in the crypt, preferably 3rd level. I'd like to see a few skellies replaced by other mobs like stalkers and maybe even an altered ghost mob. The GY used to be much more lively and the crypt ought to be a worse place than GY. My 2 cents.

As for the skulls in Hurnscald mines. I'd rather not see them come back to the main entrance, but putting in a few here and there isn't all bad. There is one room with too many for most characters right before the demon mask room. I didn't think there was always that many, but it would probably be best to keep it the way it is now. Tough room. An alternate place to throw a few skulls might be that area that has evil mushrooms, near a little bridge.... ?

My rationale is the GY is an exp area and the mines are a farming area for most players, including the lower levels.

Personally I'd like to encourage ppl to cooperate a bit, to make it MMORPG. Dont like monster? Ask someone to zap it, tank it, shot it or lure away, interaction happens. Not an option? Outwit it. In the end TMW monsters aren't very intelligent and no penalty on death either. Dangerous monsters also good to improve player skills (as long as it doesn't get prohibitively difficult). And outsmarting or killing problematic monster can feel quite good ("phew, I did it!").

I am extremely against hurnscald mines, because noobs need to grind ore and adding skulls there means adding ore farming elsewhere. And noobs obviously haven't played long enough to either know enough players to ask for favors (or are prideful, or want to do this solo because the base quest is solo), or to skillfully dodge monsters which kill you in a single hit. If they were just dangerous like spiders, would be one thing, but one-hit-one-kill for noobs is a no-no. And you need ore, be warrior or mage.

For graveyard, though, anyone heading there definitely knows players or should have plenty skill to dodge critters, which also won't kill them in a single hit. It is also to level up, which can be done in several other places even if not as efficiently: You're not trying to make your magic as a broken newbie without access to Terra Caves viable or trying to make a decent armor because you only got a leather shirt, so that's fine for me.

Leveling up should be MMORPG style, other things like shopping, AFKing, chatting and farming ores or red slimes for GP doesn't need that much excitement, and can/should be done in a relaxing way. After all, TMW is a relaxing game. Specially because you can variate where you get EXP whenever you get bored, but item or even GP sources are quite limited.

I like the idea of adding more dangerous mobs to the graveyard, like fallens and zombies. There could be one or maybe two JackOs in the “freezer” with a decent respawn rate.

Adding some stalkers or ghosts to the 3rd basement floor of the crypt would also be an improvement, and would make it a more interesting farming place.

As for adding the skulls back to the Hurnscald mines… that’s a nostalgia thing for me. It added some excitement to farming there in my noob days. I would like to see them added back.

jesusalva wrote: ↑10 Feb 2022, 06:06 I am extremely against hurnscald mines, because noobs need to grind ore and adding skulls there means adding ore farming elsewhere. And noobs obviously haven't played long enough to either know enough players to ask for favors (or are prideful, or want to do this solo because the base quest is solo), or to skillfully dodge monsters which kill you in a single hit. If they were just dangerous like spiders, would be one thing, but one-hit-one-kill for noobs is a no-no. And you need ore, be warrior or mage.

As someone who played a lot in that era, the need for higher level players to help you fight those two skulls was the first big chance for noobs to have meaningful interactions with higher level players. I started talking to people in Hurnscald because I needed help with the skulls and I am sure most people who played around that time have too.

I am in favour of returning both because both areas give players of different levels a reason to interact.

I agree with Jes here. Farming Iron is a pain as it is already. And nostalgia is one of the worst reasons to do anything. (And about interaction: forcing noobs to ask higher lvl players for help with iron farming so it is not boring for one, but two persons at the same time... welll... sounds like a lot of mmorpg fun... not)

Sounds like the problem is with farming iron then not the skulls

Most of the problems in the game are interconnected, thats why a general cleaning and reconstruation would be needed, not gonna happen tho. Too many opinions, authority too much spread etc.

Considering all sides... if skulls were added back to the entrance, then adding more yellow slime to the bandit cave would give players more reason to go in there. For that matter, with the amount of keys needed in the game now, adding a few copper slime in there wouldn't be terrible. If that isn't exciting enough, just add a few more bandits, which also drop keys. They're more of a nuisance than deadly, like skulls. It could add more challenge, but we must keep in mind it is a level 40 area (I think).

Hocus Pocus Fidibus wrote: ↑10 Feb 2022, 17:19 And nostalgia is one of the worst reasons to do anything.

My reason for wanting the skulls back in the Hurnscald mines is the excitement it brought, not purely nostalgia. It also brings a way to interact with people more, making the game more fun.

Ledmitz wrote: ↑11 Feb 2022, 04:16 adding a few copper slime in there wouldn't be terrible. If that isn't exciting enough, just add a few more bandits, which also drop keys.

I agree, bandit caves could use some spicing up. No one ever goes there unless they’re doing the bandit quest.

1) Jes, exactly: noobs dont know enough players. That's why idea to push some events a bit - so they're more encouraged to communicate and blend community rather than get bored and silently quit. MMORPG is community. And as experiments in the wild shown noobs were either able to lure skulls away or ask ppl around to address it. You've not seen this, I did. And even if skulls return or killed and respawn... its like distraction from monotonous grinding, lil sidetrackingadventure. So they were annoying but encouraged some things and IMO added up. Even if ppl hated them, they helped to create community somehow, strange, indirect, MMOish ways

2) My point TMW got too relaxed, to extent it's IMO does no good, making it lack excitement/danger and/or provoking unfortunate gameplay style similar to bots. Chatting and shopping alone can happen in more suitable places. I'd like some "emotion waves" between calm and storm, IMO "relaxing" alone makes things too boring. Just remember how players were coming to defend cities. Its been strain, but we hold our grounds and more ppl came to help. Struggle beeen reason to come back.

3) Yes, WildX, seems you got my idea. It's one of cases I've attempted to match player view and dev view to think what I really dont like about TMW and its worst parts, in hope to get rid of that. This is like 1st attempt on using "hybrid" view, matching dev-view and player-view to see how it really works. And it's interesting you've seen how it worked, unlike others. Me also been here and seen it. Seems we both liked it - as "overall" thing, not as player who needs to grind ore here and now.

4) Yes, farming iron is annoying for mages. It used to be even worse, now at least drop rates more decent, but it my least favorite thing about being mage anyway. Speaking for myself I found solution to delegate it to others, farm other items, sell them and BUY ORE. Being self sufficient mage is hard so I learned ways to make it easier and more fun. Straightforward approach rarely best with magic. Somehow TMW magic feels quite properly in this sense, it takes some creative thinking to master it and make it fun. How many of you even think mage can be a decent hunter? Just spawn some stuff, let it grind for you. Who else got numerous "autonomous agents" grinding for them? But doing it right is ofc challenging thing. And speaking of - yes, there're no good spots to grind ore. But maybe there shouldn't be too good and safe spots: this going to attract botters and "heavy automation users".

5) I think ore is +1 way to encourage interactions, in this case trades and farming for others. On side note my favorite ore grinding place is terra cave. More slimes here. Er, sorry, if everything is easy, doable yourself, relaxed... what's going to encourage trades, to begin with?

6) Few my friends asked "show us action". Somehow there's no places where noobs can have action. This made game too boring for ppl to stay, they left. Sorry, "bringing 5 rat talis" until lvl 40+ or so is very boring thing to do. Skulls at least somewhat make it up for that. Ideally there're should be better solutions tho.

Long story short, solo playing should IMO be harder than co-op to get MMO part kicking in, be it asking to deal with skull or just trading item you want, it improves community relations. Otherwise we're sorta losing MMO side, failing to be MMORPG and ... how about slightly shaking up relaxed chatters and idlers from time to time? . Either way, this thread gone a bit more interesting than I've thought. Thanks for diverse views. Feel free to suggest better ideas either, it's been first very basic idea on this, and probably there could be much better ideas.

Jack-Os in Graveyard and the Crypt seems to be a great idea. Crypt is a big map and sometimes it feels too empty when mobs move to other spots, is it possible to make them not move that faraway from their spawn points?

Not in TMWA. In Evol 2 it can be hacked but not without giving an edge to archers, although Evol2 code is mostly sane and could be modded, I guess.

I'm against any changing in the mines, Ores are an essential itens for mages, and extremely needed for newbie warriors. As jesus said, grinding ores and leveling should be relaxing once TMW doesn't allow anytype of AFKing farm.

About GY, my experience in old times with GY was very frustating, when I was a newbie and don't even know how to cast a spell, it was very frustating to got a HK in GY, so I think the experiente there is Ok right, but could be more challenging.