Character sprites

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ElvenProgrammer
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Post by ElvenProgrammer » 22 Sep 2005, 11:59

Talaroc wrote:To be a little clearer:

Talaroc's List-O-Sprites To Make for TMW:
Standing
Sitting
Walking
Running
Flying (discussed a while ago)
Climbing
Getting hit
Dying
Dodging (for when enemies miss)
Blocking
Punching/thrust attack (both hands)
Kicking
Throwing
Two-handed throwing)
Bow attack
Slashing horizontally
Slashing vertically/smashing
Two-handed weapon thrusting
Two-handed weapon slashing horizontally
Two-handed weapon slashing vertically/smashing
Whip attacking
Tired/low-HP stance
Waving
Lying down
Casting spell (got a really sweet idea for these...includes casting on self and directional/targeted casting)
Falling
Jumping

Aaand...that's all I can think of right now. All of those are going to be in all four directions, in multiple skin tones (easy to do), with both male and female sheets.

Eventually. :wink:
Ok just before we go off-topic and start talking about magic in here, here is my opinion about playerset development.

High priority:
Standing -> 1 frame
Sitting -> 1 frame
Walking -> 6 frames
Dying -> 1 frame (could be the same for the 4 directions)
Punching/thrust attack (one hand) -> 4 frames
Bow attack -> 4 frames
Slashing -> 4 frames
Two-handed weapon thrusting -> 4 frames
Two-handed weapon slashing -> 4 frames
Whip attacking -> 4 frames
Casting spell -> 4 frames
Throwing -> 4 frames

Medium priority:
Getting hit -> 1-4 frames
Dodging/Blocking attack with shield -> 1-4 frames (yeah they could be combined in my opinion)
Altered status (poison, confusion, plague, low HP, tired, ...)

Freestyle movements:
Riding (I guess this one could be also a medium priority one)
Jump, run, climb, fly (fly? :shock: ), fall -> 1-6 frames

With high priority I mean necessary sprites to start with. Medium priority means we will add them for sure, but not in the first release. Freestyle movements are a nice add-on but not necessarily need to be included. Of course this is only my opinion and probably I'm forgetting about something.

Just think that high priority sprites are 41*4 = 164 sprites to be done, that means that every equipment item (except weapons) will require at least 164 sprites. According to the actual rate of graphics development, I think this will require about 2 centuries to develop a full equipment. We have to really set a wise choice, we could discuss it at the meeting today.
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degen
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Post by degen » 22 Sep 2005, 15:12

ok hehehe welll i did try to make a midle sprite of a archer :P

well here goes:

Image

(and this one i used Burn adn Dodge to give it some more highlight. and shadows)

Image

hmm perhaps with more time the one with Burn adn dodge would be better but atm ... well i will let you guys decide

btw have you noticed ... i am all over the graph dev :D
Let em tell da' king
Da the east belongs to Morglum
Da east belongs to da orcs
Da east is green
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Post by degen » 22 Sep 2005, 16:57

ok i have done 4 frames with bow human sprite :D

i am on a roll today 8)

ImageImageImageImage

*grins* nots so bad eeh :)

hehe well first of all the third sprite probably should have his right under arm raised above the upper arm jsut a little bit so that when releasing the arrow his hands get the right swing... as he is now the hand shouldnt go above his ear in my opinion well do comment and say what you think :)
Let em tell da' king
Da the east belongs to Morglum
Da east belongs to da orcs
Da east is green
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Post by Talaroc » 22 Sep 2005, 17:21

Hey, nice. Good work.

There are definately things about that set that could bear correcting (I'm looking, in particular, at the lack of antialiasing on the outline), but that's a great start.

I do think, however, that the first ("ready stance") one should be in a different position. I'm thinking, on that one, of a 45-degree shoulder angle, with both hands down and forward (preparing the bow) and the feet not so apart yet. As it stands now, he doesn't look like he's getting ready to attack, he just looks...well, kind of cocky, actually. ;)

As a bit of clarification as regards shading, I find that I get my best success by working on the sprite at 700% size and individually coloring each pixel out of a selected palette of colors (namely, the ones I've already used in the other sprites). Whatever works for you, go for it; I'm just saying I find that method to be easiest.
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Post by Kineticstorm » 22 Sep 2005, 17:31

Talaroc, I think you should use these sideview sprites from playerset development in the wiki...
Image
Image

I don't mind making alot of sprites for the clothing, although it will take time but I think it will be fun. :wink:
Oh, and yes I made leather armor but I was also working on a cloth vest type clothing... maybe I should finish it since it seems the playerset is getting more and more developed.

Degen, I think his chest should be facing the screen not his back, so you can atleast see the bow more... it looks very good though, so don't worry about making the chest face the screen because it's not a priority right now.

Maybe I can help out with the player sprite too by trying some slashing animations... I think we will get it done much faster if more than one person works on it. (I can't believe I didn't suggest this sooner...) :)
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Post by Modanung » 22 Sep 2005, 17:41

Degen, first of all... this is not the right thread for asking about magic. Eventhough Talarocs work looks like the result of magic sometimes. :P

Second, nice work on the bow anim. Eccept for the first frame wherein the shoulders shouldn't be in that angle, as Talaroc already pointed out. Another thing that could be improved is the shape of the arm in the last frame, it looks a bit clayish/boneless.
I also see you increased the size of the hands, eventhoug they are fists... there are a bit big now.

I think we'll need seperate frames for hand-to-hand fighting. They should include blocking.
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Post by degen » 22 Sep 2005, 17:41

kinetic :) yes but either way when he faces the oposite direction we cant have him mirrored now can we ;)
so this si only when facing left direction that he will have his back against us then when facing right he will have his torso facing us and left arm grabbing arrow visibly

get it ?
that way no matter what side i choose
(i can even make both front and back while facing left and mirror one of them so that he faces right)
should point out that the above only works with teh side views :P when doing the facing north and south they must be made with bow hand facing monster (that is the hand he carries the bow, so that he/she (and it?) will be the same in both East,West,North and south facing sprites)

but thanks for the positive reaction and if anyone wonders why its so similliar to talarocs its a matter of facts i used his charset to build up and archer so that the body sprite looks as identical as possible ;)
Let em tell da' king
Da the east belongs to Morglum
Da east belongs to da orcs
Da east is green
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Post by degen » 22 Sep 2005, 17:49

Oooooh and Talaroc regarding that stance he is resting/grabbing an arrow from the quiver :P didnt make a quiver yet but thats arrow grabbing :D

I thought that grabbing/holding/'resting on quiver' arrow is a good start sprite
hope that explain the sprite alot mroe (no bow or quiver can make it hard to symbolize movements) and yes i am not that great at either shadowing or antialising yet so ofcourse if it amkes your job easier i will keep submitting other moves as well (and the feet not moving well i tried making a sprite with as little feet movement as possible seemed as if Elven didnt want that)
Thought he could as you said have his feet more together and then take a step forward while aiming ... that could work

*edit*
(missed your post there first modanung)

Yes modanung but look at your hands while holding a 2 inch wide wooden stick i'll be damned if it doesnt look thicker :P well perhasp thats not needed in animating but while making it i thought it would be like that so ok my bad will make the hands smaller... (perhaps i am trying to think to much of a human aspect >_< )

*edit* (baah forgot to answer about the first sprite)
Yes well to explain how the first sprite looked in my head while working on it:
First of all teh bow is aligned wit the top end of bow facing north and the bottom end of bow facing south his hands clasps the bow in the middle and the bow string goes between his arm and torso (at his armpit that is) so when you grab and arrow (when arrow is out fo quiver the arrow points north) you rais the bow and it gets aligned (upper end point up to the sky and bottom end of bow pointin at the ground) he notches the arrow pulls it to his chin releases the arrow pulls down his bow resting his ahdn at quiver (as any bowmen would do if i am not thinking wrong)

Hope that explains it :P

*edit* ooh should add that with north adn south i meen the directions ingame as he is facing east north would be one tile up and south one tile down ... no misstakes now i hope :P
Let em tell da' king
Da the east belongs to Morglum
Da east belongs to da orcs
Da east is green
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Post by Kineticstorm » 22 Sep 2005, 18:48

degen wrote:kinetic :) yes but either way when he faces the oposite direction we cant have him mirrored now can we ;)
so this is only when facing left direction that he will have his back against us then when facing right he will have his torso facing us and left arm grabbing arrow visibly
Yeah, I just thought of that right before I read this. :wink:
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Post by degen » 22 Sep 2005, 19:25

ok to symbolize what i tried to explain in probably very bad english :P
here comes a picture with what happened to become a very oversized bow
all i could do was my best right :oops: so no laughing

Image

ok i hope that makes it more clearer :P ooh the hands not even visible ooh well ...


ooh Btw talaroc i read your post regarding the first sprite and i think i am now understanding what you ment. i will try to ahve that and as said above earlier by me i can help making the starts but when the nifty fine detailing comes up :P i dont mind stepping aside :) atm i really lack in that department
Let em tell da' king
Da the east belongs to Morglum
Da east belongs to da orcs
Da east is green
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Post by degen » 22 Sep 2005, 22:08

one thing struck me while really looking at the character sprites both the old ones and the new ones dont you think the view they have is to much from the down on earth? like the angle is almost straightforward?

i dont know much about making characters but if we are to keep the same angle for buildings and monsters that would really come of as Super mario bro's in the end ... or maybe i am getting tirerd and its late ...

well just a thought jsut a thought...
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Da east belongs to da orcs
Da east is green
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Post by Talaroc » 22 Sep 2005, 22:20

Talaroc, I think you should use these sideview sprites from playerset development in the wiki...
The problem with that being that they don't match up to the style of the rest of my sprites. I mean, if people like those a lot better, that's fine, but with either those or the ones I've already got, I have to do some tweaking.
Eventhough Talarocs work looks like the result of magic sometimes.
Aww... :oops: :D
I think we'll need seperate frames for hand-to-hand fighting. They should include blocking.
Agreed. I think I could probably swing making a single combined "block" for both shield and hand-to-hand (blocking with the forearm you would otherwise have your shield on).
yes but either way when he faces the oposite direction we cant have him mirrored now can we
I like you. :D
Far too many people are willing to let illogical mirroring slide. Hell, you even see it in the big name MMO's sometimes. It's rediculous.
as said above earlier by me i can help making the starts but when the nifty fine detailing comes up i dont mind stepping aside atm i really lack in that department
I'll be glad to have your help. Since we've more or less got the characterset style pinned down, between the two of us we should be able to slam out quite a few finished sprites fairly quickly.
one thing struck me while really looking at the character sprites both the old ones and the new ones dont you think the view they have is to much from the down on earth? like the angle is almost straightforward?
Objectively? Yes, it is a little bit off. However, I looked around a bunch before starting and used the proportions and angles I saw in other well-made games of the same style. It's a little error that makes the game a little better looking, since in-game most people don't notice and you can get more detail on the characters that way.
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Post by Rotonen » 23 Sep 2005, 00:00

Please do actual animations (gif, mng). It helps to visualize what could be wrong about the frame positions. The stills don't probably do justice.
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Post by degen » 23 Sep 2005, 08:25

:oops: damn he mentioned it *pokes rotonen on the shoulder*

:P never done gif animations before i have no clue how you make them (yet)
But i will google it :P
Damn i really had wished i would have been able to just "ooh woosh foolish me i should have animated them" and then showed you guys 8)

hehe ok :D now you know why they werent animated
(yes somepeople has never had the need for learning gif animations before)

Talaroc: Mmm i came to think about that later that if the character would be as much from top down view as the rest of the game there wouldnt be much you would see of the character and alot of detail would be lost. (which ofc is a bad thing)

Then lets just play with the idea of a more "cone" formed character to fool the eye of its standing to make the legs look as if they are"below the character" or perhaps that owuld be silly ... (looks so awesome in my head but ... a feeling under my right arm pit tells me that its wrong)
Let em tell da' king
Da the east belongs to Morglum
Da east belongs to da orcs
Da east is green
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Post by Modanung » 23 Sep 2005, 12:34

degen wrote:Then lets just play with the idea of a more "cone" formed character to fool the eye of its standing to make the legs look as if they are"below the character" or perhaps that owuld be silly ... (looks so awesome in my head but ... a feeling under my right arm pit tells me that its wrong)
That's what Blizzard did in Warcraft 2. At least I think that's what you mean.
It gives a very eagle-eyish feeling; nice for RTS, but I don't think it would suit this kind of RPG.
End even with the bow in his hand I think his shoulders should be angled 45* instead of 90*... 0* being the look direction.

And yes, I'd call that a HEAVY bow... or a portable balista. :wink:
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