Character sprites

All development of pixel art and graphics
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Crush
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Post by Crush » 04 Dec 2005, 07:30

Jetryl wrote: None of this prissy "It looks better saturated and I'm right about that" bullshit that crush has been whining about on his god-awful woodland tileset.
when i learned one thing while woking for this project, then it is that it isn't possible to make something everyone likes. in my opinion there is no "better" or "worse" in art. just a "my taste" and "not my taste". of course there are many things most peoples tastes have in common (like smooth edes, consistence and no repetive patterns for example) and we artists have to appeal to this general taste to find general acceptance. but some things are just personal preference. whatever you do there is always someone who thinks that it would look better this way and someone else thinks it would be better that way.

for example i can't understand why you've cutted off the nose of the playerset. but you sure wouldn't have done it when you wouldn't prefer it that way (by the way, you forgot to do it in the sitting frame. i'm pointing this out because it is obviously an error you didn't noticed before uploading it and not an intentional style decision).


i for myself eventually decided to read every opinion about my work and think carefully if i can agree with it in some way. if yes i try to do the best i can to fulfil it (and i did very frequently, how everyone can see who observed the development of my tileset). when i don't agree with the opinion and i think the suggested changes would be pointless, wouldn't be worth the effort or would even look different from my personal vision of TMW i just ignore it. in the beginning i objected and even argued, but i came to the conclusion that this is pointless. you can't discuss about taste. and in the end i want to influence the project in the direction i prefer and not the direction someone else wants. that's what i see as a compensation for my effort. when someone else doesn't like what i like he or she is free to redesign it and let the development team decide what they prefer because i refuse to sacrifice my spare time to create things i don't like myself.


but i agree with you in the point that the core development team doesn't do enough to encourage contend development in the last months. there are many interesting graphics, maps and other things floating around in the last time but nothing of it ever got online while every little code tweak gets into the next version as soon as possible. the game IS in an early development stage and there is nothing against putting in some not yet fully developed things just for testing purpose and showing the fan base (who are potential new contributors) that we are indeed doing something. there is no reason for holding back contend.
  • former Manasource Programmer
  • former TMW Pixel artist
  • NOT a game master

Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


You might have heard a certain rumor about me. This rumor is completely false. You might also have heard the other rumor about me. This rumor is 100% accurate.
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Jetryl
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Post by Jetryl » 04 Dec 2005, 07:50

Crush wrote:
Jetryl wrote: None of this prissy "It looks better saturated and I'm right about that" bullshit that crush has been whining about on his god-awful woodland tileset.
when i learned one thing while woking for this project, then it is that it isn't possible to make something everyone likes. in my opinion there is no "better" or "worse" in art. just a "my taste" and "not my taste". of course there are many things most peoples tastes have in common (like smooth edes, consistence and no repetive patterns for example) and we artists have to appeal to this general taste to find general acceptance. but some things are just personal preference. whatever you do there is always someone who thinks that it would look better this way and someone else thinks it would be better that way.

for example i can't understand why you've cutted off the nose of the playerset. but you sure wouldn't have done it when you wouldn't prefer it that way (by the way, you forgot to do it in the sitting frame. i'm pointing this out because it is obviously an error you didn't noticed before uploading it and not an intentional style decision).


i for myself eventually decided to read every opinion about my work and think carefully if i can agree with it in some way. if yes i try to do the best i can to fulfil it (and i did very frequently, how everyone can see who observed the development of my tileset). when i don't agree with the opinion and i think the suggested changes would be pointless, wouldn't be worth the effort or would even look different from my personal vision of TMW i just ignore it. in the beginning i objected and even argued, but i came to the conclusion that this is pointless. you can't discuss about taste. and in the end i want to influence the project in the direction i prefer and not the direction someone else wants. that's what i see as a compensation for my effort. when someone else doesn't like what i like he or she is free to redesign it and let the development team decide what they prefer because i refuse to sacrifice my spare time to create things i don't like myself.
NYSPOS

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. It's a situation wherein there's only one real way to make something look good - saturation was only part of it; shaping and texturing was the unspoken rest.

There are times in your life when you'll run into someone who's obviously a lot more skilled than you are. When they tell you to do something a certain way, and you're not skilled enough to understand why they want you to do it that way, just do what they say. It's extremely frustrating to said "skilled people" when you blatantly ignore their freely given and hard-won advice.

Apprentices should only disregard the master's advice when they are better than the master. The most important thing about art is that it is as much the skill of seeing as it is of depicting. The master sees something that you can't see.

And yeah, it's extremely frustrating to be told that things are wrong with your work, but that's the bitter cup you have to gladly drink if you expect to get good. Smile, drink away, and get better. It worked for me.
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Post by Modanung » 04 Dec 2005, 13:17

Jetryl wrote:
Modanung wrote:Pity you're leaving us.
No, the real pity is the reason why I'm doing so.
I think the reason you're doing so is because you're impatient. Unfortunatly for most people their busy period overlap. I, for one, will start contributing once I'm done with 2 projects for school. Both of it's deadlines are christmas.
I think development will get fully back on track in a while.

And Jetryl, I agree the saturation thing is a matter of fact.
Crush, a high saturated background simply leaves out the possibility to have other things (like items and monsters) be notable. This had been said before, and it's very true. Apart from that it hurts the eyes of people with normal monitors.
If you're looking for 3D FOSS games be sure to check out LucKey Productions on itch.io
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Post by ElvenProgrammer » 04 Dec 2005, 14:29

Jetryl wrote:A warning to you - the chief reason you don't have many "1337 artistz" working for you is because you guys don't seem to be doing much on your end. If you want projects like this to succeed, you need to demonstate your own committment to it. I mean - grab a brush and start_fucking_pixeling already. Don't whine about "I'm not talented" or "I'm not as experienced as you." Bullshit - I didn't get good by talent - I got good because of two things:

1] Force of will
2] Absolute willingness to accept and change, but also to seek out and identify my own mistakes. None of this prissy "It looks better saturated and I'm right about that" bullshit that crush has been whining about on his god-awful woodland tileset. Learning from mistakes is a touchy thing, largely due to the ambiguity about what constitutes one in the first place, but despite being very difficult, it's absolutely essential.

If you want this project to succeed, you have to be willing to dive in and do ANYTHING that really needs to be done. I find it preposterous that in over a year, you've basically done nothing. No new server, no new playerset, nothing of significance. (whereas wesnoth has not only our own homemade multiplayer server, but a separate content server application as well). Show some commitment, and you'll get some amazing people who'll do stuff for you. But you need to build it, or they won't come.
Hmm if I understood you correctly, you're asking me to create graphic? Well that's how we had the snake in the game that was my work. And I worked on tiles maps, scripts, and of course I'm also coding. The problem is me, the other developers and the artists are very busy at the moment, in particular I'm working on the final project for my university which is sadly most important than TMW.
About wesnoth, well it was developed for more than 2 years at least, TMW is younger, and please don't misunderstood me, but I think a turn based game is a bit easier to develop. I'm pretty sure after xmas the development will start again and better than before.
Jetryl wrote:Promise fulfilled - here is version 0.99 of your sprite sheet. I'm going to clean up some **** on the feet later tonight, and then I'm done with this - permanently. I'll make side views of those hairsets, the female version of the spritesheet, and then I'm going away until you get your act together; possibly forever.
You'd never know how much appreciate the help you're giving to us. I guess we will add a statue of you in the game. :P But while you're at it, maybe you could also create one vertical laying death frame? We need only one that will be used for all the directions.
Jetryl wrote:You need to inspire some people - that's your job as project leader.
You're right, I know, I'll try to do my best to let things go on. I won't give up so easily. :twisted:
Jetryl wrote:No, the real pity is the reason why I'm doing so. The writing is on the wall - I think your project is screwed, but please prove me wrong...
We will surely do :!:
Crush wrote:for example i can't understand why you've cutted off the nose of the playerset. but you sure wouldn't have done it when you wouldn't prefer it that way (by the way, you forgot to do it in the sitting frame. i'm pointing this out because it is obviously an error you didn't noticed before uploading it and not an intentional style decision).
I agree with Crush, I don't like the cut of the nose that much.
Crush wrote:i for myself eventually decided to read every opinion about my work and think carefully if i can agree with it in some way. if yes i try to do the best i can to fulfil it (and i did very frequently, how everyone can see who observed the development of my tileset). when i don't agree with the opinion and i think the suggested changes would be pointless, wouldn't be worth the effort or would even look different from my personal vision of TMW i just ignore it. in the beginning i objected and even argued, but i came to the conclusion that this is pointless. you can't discuss about taste. and in the end i want to influence the project in the direction i prefer and not the direction someone else wants. that's what i see as a compensation for my effort. when someone else doesn't like what i like he or she is free to redesign it and let the development team decide what they prefer because i refuse to sacrifice my spare time to create things i don't like myself.
The same happens to me, people ask for something but others don't like it. It's hard to find a common path, but at least we try to do our best or follow what the most of the people wants, I even sacrificed something that I liked a lot myself because of others people didn't like it. So you should understand that we have preferred more variation in the path as was asked from many people and to lower the saturation of the grass again requested by most of the people.
Crush wrote:but i agree with you in the point that the core development team doesn't do enough to encourage contend development in the last months. there are many interesting graphics, maps and other things floating around in the last time but nothing of it ever got online while every little code tweak gets into the next version as soon as possible. the game IS in an early development stage and there is nothing against putting in some not yet fully developed things just for testing purpose and showing the fan base (who are potential new contributors) that we are indeed doing something. there is no reason for holding back contend.
That's sad to hear, since as you've seen from my screenshots neko-mon worked on 2 monsters for your tileset, and I was working to introduce your map and tileset in the next version, even if the tileset is far from completed and you refuse to accept our suggestions. What else should I do? Tell me and I'll do my best to help you.
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Post by Matt » 04 Dec 2005, 15:27

omg, they killed him! he's dead, dead, DEAD!!!!

Image

It sucks but who cares :wink:
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Post by Modanung » 04 Dec 2005, 19:23

Matt wrote:Image
Blood 'n gore 'n blood 'n gore!!!! WOOOOOWHEE!!! :D
If you're looking for 3D FOSS games be sure to check out LucKey Productions on itch.io
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neoriceisgood
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Post by neoriceisgood » 26 Dec 2005, 14:07

No, the real pity is the reason why I'm doing so. The writing is on the wall - I think your project is screwed, but please prove me wrong...

Just on a side note; That's a good reason for why I left aswell;

I came back every week or so to check on progress, to find absolutely no progress at all; Now after like, two months? I see the player set done; With help of a person not much unlike myself; who'se given you a HUGE hand in giving a very professional looking player sheet;

You need to keep your act together, and do what Jetryl said if you want to convince talented people (Not just graphic artists) to stick around.

I may note; Jetryl's "cutting off the nose" thing was obviously based upon the anime-ish appearance of the character set;The nose clached with the rest.
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Post by Bjørn » 26 Dec 2005, 15:14

Hmm I think you left over half a year before the recent 2 months of inactivity of this project though. I'm confident that we'll be able to pick up the pace again soon.

About the writing on the wall, there may have been a slight pencil stroke, but it only becomes a paint job in a thick black font when people actually leave because of it, instead of picking up an erasor.
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Post by Ultim » 27 Dec 2005, 07:22

If someone doesn't apply some sort of medicine to the wound it will fester out of control into a full-blown infection and kill the body.

Hints:
wound = this petty squabble
body = the project
medicine = Will an admin please lock the topic? It has certainly outlived its usefulness.
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Re

Post by Bear » 29 Dec 2005, 01:46

Theres a nice system for ya !

Something like poison....

some new Status Effects

Fatal Blow:
Player is struck fataly with a blow to his body, It bleeds uncontrolably unless given proper treatment (First Aid Pack).
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Post by Ultim » 29 Dec 2005, 19:40

Haha only if you meant "bleed uncontrollably" to be "spurt 3x the person's weight in blood all over." Hahaha...
But really, the status effects are kind of annoying. Besides, a fatal blow is... fatal. No extenuating medical circumstances.
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Post by Adarias » 03 Jan 2006, 03:54

Open project are a give and take environment. In order to make something worth while, each should follow the C.R.I.T.E.R.I.A. for a healthy developement team

Contribute, and strive to give worthwhile contributions
Respect the contributions of others while making suggestions to make them better
Inspire your fellow developers by being productive and good-natured
Take suggestions yourself from fellow contributors, or else provide a valid reason not to
Expect to cede more than one point in order to come to an aagreement
Renew your interest periodically by observing what other developers are producing
Ignore flaming, it is counterproductive and every one of you are above it
Allow yourself to not take things too seriously, a fun game must be made by people who have fun at least some of the time.

I have seen many projects like this drop and die because of bickering between those who do not meet the C.R.I.T.E.R.I.A., leaving those who do angered but out of luck, having put a lot of effort into something that someone else destroyed. It is easy to forget the C.R.I.T.E.R.I.A., especially for the originators and leaders of a project, but from what i have seen of the senior members, that is not the case with this project/
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Post by Adarias » 03 Jan 2006, 04:29

now for something worth talking about......

ImageImageImageImage

those look great except for the final frame....if you have ever practiced archery, you would spot it in an instant.... when firing, the draw arm always moves from drawn position (beneath the chin for sighted bows, beside the ear for standard aiming along the arrowshaft) to the shoulder until the arrow has completely left the bow. then the bow is lowered, and the hand moves from the shoulder to the quiver (either on the back or at the hip). this is a must for accuracy and power, as any motion of the draw arm is reflected by the bow arm, and any motion of the bow arm causes slice and a massive reduction in force. If you raised your draw arm when you fired, the arrow would either hit the ground if you were firing from a standing position, or it would do a series of frontwards flips if you were firing from a raised position, the equivalent of topspin. If the arrow has rifle fletching, even god couldnt tell you where it would go, because that combines the rotation of the shaft with the tilt, most likely sending it into the ground, far off to the right (unless your fletchings are backwards), or high into the air. Look up proper form anywhere and you should find suitable references

Image

The slashing arm motion itself is great, but i think he should slash much more with his body though. Followthrough is everything in a slash, unless you just plan to tickle. Followthrough is also necessary to set up a base for defending aginst a reprisal, or continuing with your attack should you not kill or defeat with the first. the references provided by elven are a good example of what i mean: torso rotation and forward motion of the body
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Post by ElvenProgrammer » 03 Jan 2006, 10:29

Adarias wrote:I have seen many projects like this drop and die because of bickering between those who do not meet the C.R.I.T.E.R.I.A., leaving those who do angered but out of luck, having put a lot of effort into something that someone else destroyed. It is easy to forget the C.R.I.T.E.R.I.A., especially for the originators and leaders of a project, but from what i have seen of the senior members, that is not the case with this project/
Thank you :oops:
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Post by Platyna » 03 Jan 2006, 13:58

You know people...I think you all should just cut the BS and focus on doing something for our own good. I am not an arist, I am a sysadmin, I am looking for a nice game to play, and I am not demanding - I would like to look like a woman, have nice long hair, some clothes, weapons, interesting maps, I don't care if my skirt will be two pixels too long or my legs two pixes too short, or if the map is too green (unless it will be eye beating) - it is always to be fixed later. We all have our IRL activities - work, school etc. it is quite usual for projects like that (and I have participiated in many) that somebody will leave or will have less time, even the project admin, bashing and quarrelling will do us no good. So maybe I will clean up that thread from the eye scratching so all interested people could focus on the thing which is really important - "serious effort to create a MMORPG"? ;)

Regards.
Zuzanna K. Filutowska
[The rest of this signature was censored by TMWC's "Freedom" and "Free speech".]
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