Death penalty ...

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Crush
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Post by Crush » 31 Dec 2007, 18:33

Eliott wrote:ok

will it be able to meet other death players ?
Yes.
jaxad0127 wrote:Since the labyrinth won't have a map, I assume it will be like the Lost Woods in Zelda games (where each room looks alike and there are paths leading out of every room in all directions)?
No.
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Post by 5t3v3 » 31 Dec 2007, 20:39

jaxad0127 wrote:Since the labyrinth won't have a map, I assume it will be like the Lost Woods in Zelda games (where each room looks alike and there are paths leading out of every room in all directions)?
I think what crush meant is, there will be no mini-map to consult and find your way. And posting the map somewhere online wouldn't be much use either since it's constantly changing.

Loving the idea btw. So, would you be able to see whether or not the exit you're about to take gives a big or small penalty?
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Post by Peacemaker » 01 Jan 2008, 22:21

Such a maze is also great for Dungeons.

Another 2D MMORPG i played long time ago had such a random maze. The tricky part was, that the player had to remember every step because if the player touches the wall, he will be beamed back to the startpoint...
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Eliott
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Post by Eliott » 01 Jan 2008, 23:14

Peacemaker wrote:the player had to remember every step because if the player touches the wall
what do you mean by "touches the wall" ?
Is it the wall of Dongeons ?
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Post by Peacemaker » 02 Jan 2008, 09:14

I mean, if you walk into an invisable wall, the player gets back to the entrance... But I must say that it is a bad idea for TMW because it would be very difficult to get through (the other game had very small Maps and Tile-based movement, therefore the maze "just" took an hour...).

btw. I really like the death penalty random maze :)
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Post by Trinexx » 02 Jan 2008, 09:27

I think the whole "maze" thing would piss off a lot of players...

I'm not a big fan of TMW looking and feeling similar to other MMORPGs, but I personally love Ultima Online's way of handling death. That's just me, though.
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Post by Eliott » 02 Jan 2008, 09:53

Peacemaker wrote:I mean, if you walk into an invisable wall, the player gets back to the entrance... But I must say that it is a bad idea for TMW because it would be very difficult to get through (the other game had very small Maps and Tile-based movement, therefore the maze "just" took an hour...).
ok
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Post by Peacemaker » 02 Jan 2008, 09:56

My opinion about death penalty's:

1. a death penalty should not decrease EXP or money
2. but it should be some kind of punishment
3. optimal solution: let the player choose...

So it would be nice to choose between the maze, lose experience or lose money. If you are remembering the Greece mythology there is a ferry boat to transport someone safety over the water to or out of the "Hades". The price is 2 golden coins on the eyes of the dead body...

For TMW this idea could be adopted... If someone wants to travel between the dead an the living world the player can ask the ferry boat NPC. The NPC takes x% of our money OR asks for an rare item out of the inventory OR asks to get x% EXP. Of, course that should work in both directions...

If someone doesnt want to pay money or lose EXP (the loss should be high enough to think about walking trough the maze), the player can go through the maze...
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Post by Eliott » 02 Jan 2008, 10:14

it's a great idea but i think the majority of players prefer choosing the maze and don't losing XP, money or rare item.
the choice is useless.
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Post by Crush » 02 Jan 2008, 13:48

It's a pure matter of cost optimisation. Earning gold and exp costs time and doing the labyrinth costs time, too.

When the time required for earning the gold and/or exp required for skipping the labyrinth is less than the time it takes to do the labyrinth an intelligent player will skip it. When the time required for earning the cost is more than the time saved by skipping the labyrinth a smart player would rather do the labyrinth.
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Post by Rotonen » 02 Jan 2008, 16:26

My input into the issue:

The labyrinth experience should have variance. It's boring if the challenge is the same every time. There should be multiple potential goals and some (optional) mini-quests too. This also apperas to be the consensus of the dev team so far. Unless this thread gathers an enormous opposition towards the concept or comes up with a radically better design, we could consider this decided.
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Post by Eliott » 02 Jan 2008, 17:12

will this punishement be proportional to the player's level ?
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Post by Crush » 02 Jan 2008, 17:23

When we add an option to buy yourself out of limbo it should be level-dependent because a fortune for a low-level character is nothing for a high-level character - both in money and in exp.
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Post by Sertraline » 06 Jan 2008, 07:46

Hold on a second. Did I skip the part where we described at length how dying, then immediately respawning with no consequence other than being moved back to the start is broken?

I'll concede that perhaps there should be consequences. Let's say, wait 10 seconds, lose some GP, or some items, some exp. But how far can you push it until the game stops being fun? I can't speak for anyone else, but I play games to have fun, and I don't see the excitement and diversion in wandering around in an inscrutable abyss
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Post by zick » 07 Jan 2008, 00:52

kinda off topic, but here goes:

my "dying forever" idea was based upon another suggestion i wanted to submit about weapons/armor breaking down over time unless they are maintained. i think every action should have some kind of consequence, it will cause people to venture slowly into unfamiliar areas. if there is the possibility that you will die forever you won't approach an enemy that you are unsure you can defeat. also if there's a possibility that someone else can grab your level 99 sword (that you worked hard for) if you should fall in battle, you'll rethink the death without consequence (or minor consequence).

as well as keep the amount of money low. a bunch of people say that they want a bank; i say you're not apportioning your money properly if you need a bank. you should invest your money in a house, properly maintained weapons/armor, healing items, etc.

i do like the idea of the labyrinth though, i think it could be tweaked.
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