(sub)forums for non English speaking players

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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Keni » 15 Feb 2008, 18:48

Oh well. In fact mine L1 is Polish, but that doesn't means I have to post in Polish. Try to understand that making many local-oriented subforums will split discussion between them, making then unreadable for others. The way we develop TMW determine that we have to understand each other. So the best solution in this case is to create own forum in Spanish, German, Polish, etc. If need this for some reasons I think It wouldn't be a problem to provide link to forum on main TWM site.

And of course there is another reason why we don't implement multi-lingual forums. That reason is limited bandwidth. As you noticed TMW is non commercial project. We can not afford to pay for super-hiper-extra-turbo hosting which will handle such traffic.

My answer for multi-lingual support on forums is NO.
This is like with me and my little brother, we always fight of ho has the reason.
But let see i have no knowledges of create forums, and even if i do it, i could not maintenance it.
And i put it in English and Spanish, for that everybody understand that the two things are the same.
FOR YOU ITS NO AND FOR ME ITS YES, ITS DISCUSSION; JUST THAT.

PS: Its TMW not TWM. Of course, a mistake is a mistake.
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by AxlTrozz » 15 Feb 2008, 18:55

At the beginning I wanted a multi-L forum, because my Native language is Spanish, but imagine how complicated is to agree something when everybody speak (and type) English, multiply that for the number of languages and then try to synchronize all the topics with the current needs of the game with the stage and interest of all the forums all together.

I would say we could work in a multi-L website just for people from others countries (and can't speak any English) who want to play and they need some basic guide lines on how to install, how's to do and basic support but not a whole development community, I think English is a must for TMW developers in order to keep the pace of the game and In-Sync
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by yosuhara » 15 Feb 2008, 19:02

AxlTrozz wrote:At the beginning I wanted a multi-L forum, because my Native language is Spanish, but imagine how complicated is to agree something when everybody speak (and type) English, multiply that for the number of languages and then try to synchronize all the topics with the current needs of the game with the stage and interest of all the forums all together.

I would say we could work in a multi-L website just for people from others countries (and can't speak any English) who want to play and they need some basic guide lines on how to install, how's to do and basic support but not a whole development community, I think English is a must for TMW developers in order to keep the pace of the game and In-Sync
I totally agree with Axl... it would just make things more complicated...
and that multi language site with basic steps and support is a very nice idea
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Keni » 15 Feb 2008, 19:05

I totally agree with Axl... it would just make things more complicated...
and that multi language site with basic steps and support is a very nice idea
Me too
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by i » 15 Feb 2008, 19:16

Keni wrote:
I totally agree with Axl... it would just make things more complicated...
and that multi language site with basic steps and support is a very nice idea
Me too
I agree also, but that doesn't mean I have to post it in 2 words. Forums should stay in English to provide something that is called effective community. Webpage in fact could be multilingual.

Anyway Keni if you need help in setting up your own Spanish TMW forum, I think you should ask google for that. Find web hosting (php, mysql), go to phpbb web page (link is in footer) and try. It isn't as much complicated as it looks like. Or another solution - find free forums service. We got something like that in Poland (http://fora.pl/).

edit.
http://www.freeforums.org/

TWM-->TMW... misspelling
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Crush » 15 Feb 2008, 19:40

Using a free forum hosting service is quite fool-proof. You'll have some banner adds on it, though.
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Inte » 15 Feb 2008, 20:16

AxlTrozz wrote:I would say we could work in a multi-L website just for people from others countries (and can't speak any English) who want to play and they need some basic guide lines on how to install, how's to do and basic support but not a whole development community, I think English is a must for TMW developers in order to keep the pace of the game and In-Sync
That's all I'm talking about. No one's interested in doing development stuff in another language than English.
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by AxlTrozz » 15 Feb 2008, 20:44

Peon or any interested

I can offer you,

Create a SandBox for you
1. allow some space in my webhosting
2. create a subdomain under mine (but if you want to buy your own like : "Themanaworldespanol.org" go ahead)
3. give you ftp access so you can post web pages and graphics

4. Once any language is done we can present it to the Admins and developers and under approval well we could put it in the main server

If you (or any really seriously interested) is willing to put the time and good effort to create a new language for the website not forum, let me know so I can prepare the space for you as SandBoxes and give you instructions on how we can work together to achieve it
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Platyna » 16 Feb 2008, 03:19

Creating subforums is not a big task, moderating them is, we have three moderators, and we can't expect them to know all the languages of this world, and we don't need more of them, and we have no way to control the chosen ones work. This is the international community and the current "lingua franca" is English, learn it, you will make your life easier, this is not XIV century when the majority of people had no possibility for education and to know people from other countries.

Regarding the free forum/web services - they sucks. This is only meant to get free email addresses and the database of user info (as well as other "free" web services, including the most evil Google stuff). Even if they don't do it initially, they are getting "nice" offers to sell the data. Not telling about problems to move the data elsewhere - eg. with the database dumps, once I had to create a crawler to download my one of forums I was the admin of (owned by my friend who had a small eclipse of his mind when created them). So by using "free" web services you are supporting big, evil companies and spammers from all over the world.

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[The rest of this signature was censored by TMWC's "Freedom" and "Free speech".]
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Inte
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Inte » 16 Feb 2008, 10:29

@AxlTrozz: Thanks for you offer ... there exists already a forum in my native language which I don't like, because of it's "community splitting characteristics". All I'm talking about is giving them all one (small) home for installation support, chatting, organize user meetings ... I don't see enough manpower to operate a huge portal.
Platyna wrote:... we have three moderators, and we can't expect them to know all the languages of this world, and we don't need more of them, and we have no way to control the chosen ones work.
That's the key message ... you're (at the moment) not willing to put responsibility on someone else. I'm really appalled you fend off these helpful suggestions.

Perhaps I'm just not the right person to give you an advise ... probably you dismiss my serious effort and prefer to play around with the other inner circle guys. :(
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Len » 16 Feb 2008, 10:52

Inte wrote:Perhaps I'm just not the right person to give you an advise ... probably you dismiss my serious effort and prefer to play around with the other inner circle guys. :(
Even those within the inner circle (lol, inner circle) sometimes have their ideas shot down, so please stop weeping.
I've had countless Ideas and suggestions that the other developers have turned down or outright rejected, its just part of life.

And even when everyone agrees with you it can be hard to motivate them into action (or you can get stuck debating about the best course of action to take) :evil:
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Platyna » 16 Feb 2008, 11:24

Inte wrote:
Platyna wrote:... we have three moderators, and we can't expect them to know all the languages of this world, and we don't need more of them, and we have no way to control the chosen ones work.
That's the key message ... you're (at the moment) not willing to put responsibility on someone else. I'm really appalled you fend off these helpful suggestions.
I have already explained you, why I have "fend off" your suggestion, there is nothing behind my opinion besides the pure logic.

Maybe I will elaborate then:
- Community is supposed to be under control, it is required if we want to keep the community at all, how we are going to control people we do not underestand?
- We want all the community members to interact with each other, we don't want officialy support any cliques. I was recently in France, no one darn speaks English there, it is some kind of hidden nationalism, since English language is everywhere. I don't like it, what is the problem to learn basic words such as "milk" or "exit"? If I was British you could tell me that I am turning the idea of multilanguage forums because I am lazy and evil (in fact I am), but I am Polish, I love my native language, which is beautiful and rich, but I am not going to put it in anyone's throat. I am finding English great for the international (especially electronic) communication - it is simple, easy, no diactrics and alot of resources are written in this language.

In the Bible it is written that god has mixed peoples languages to make them stupid and prevent them to cooperate to achieve great things (such as building the darn high tower), there is alot of truth in it.
Perhaps I'm just not the right person to give you an advise ... probably you dismiss my serious effort and prefer to play around with the other inner circle guys. :(
Every person can give me advices (so I could ignore them ;)), and indeed, I am dismissing your serious effort, but rather because mine is serious too not because I am a member of TMW Cosa Nostra.


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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Simeon » 16 Feb 2008, 13:44

On the positive side, anyone who wanders around on the Internet will need some basic knowledge of English anyway. Sure, you could stick to sites in your native language but then you can only visit a (possible small) subset of the Internet. A lot of the information/communication on the Internet (by people from the Western world) is in English so it helps to be able to express yourself in English.
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by AxlTrozz » 16 Feb 2008, 17:52

I'm afraid we are missing a very important point, take advantage of this situation and do something about, I can see some factors here:

1. NO forums will be created in other languages, that's understood
2. There is a considerable amount of players that have English limitations and I said Players (some of our countries don't have any formal English instruction at all, believe me, is true)
3. Almost every game client I know have at least instructions in more than one language, and the proposal is to create a website section , not forum, with instructions on how to install, some FAQ, and general info about the project, is not harmful at all.
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Re: (sub)forums for non English speaking players

Post by Inte » 18 Feb 2008, 16:55

i wrote:So the best solution in this case is to create own forum in Spanish, German, Polish, etc. If need this for some reasons I think It wouldn't be a problem to provide link to forum on main TWM site.
Providing links to native forums is a good idea to start with. IMHO
Platyna wrote:- We want all the community members to interact with each other, we don't want officialy support any cliques.
That was my basic idea ... instead of having these "cliques" (various other wikis, forums, etc.). Obviously you have a different understanding in this. But that's fine ...
Platyna wrote:Every person can give me advices (so I could ignore them ;)), and indeed, I am dismissing your serious effort, but rather because mine is serious too ...
I agree and appreciate your serious engagement. I just overstated my description of your fend off handling to players demands. ;)

Although I'm unhappy with the current situation I understand your arguments. I'll wait some time and maybe somewhere in the future there's a place for native forums hosted by TMWs origin.
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