The Mana World Forums

Hi there, will it every be possible for us to use some high resolution, maybe hand drawn bitmaps as maps instead of our current tiling method? I've been looking at some of the higher quality proprietary 2d games, and that's how every one of them is able to be so beautiful, and i'm afraid we won't ever reach that level of beauty as we're doing it now.

We could of course map walkable areas onto areas on the image that look walkable, draw the beings and objects in the style of the map, and have em do some cool animations (e.g. trees swaying).
I'm posting this really because i wonder if such a method is compatable with the current architecture of at least tmwserv (could make another client for it with the hd graphics later on or convert the current). I think it would be a good idea to be prepared for such a possibilty if we ever have an artist capable and willing.

The thread http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3217 is about the same topic.

Ok, i see , the topic has come back multiple times for this project, hahah. Well, as long as there's a possibility I'm happy. I'll keep quiet about this until I find someone who's able to do it or I'm able.

I think it's a very cool idea, so long as you're making all of the graphics from scratch, so that everything in your environment matches. I think it's important for different servers to avoid copying each other's graphical style. Cutting down on reusable graphics might be a lot of work, but the potential for much more unique-looking maps is still an attractive notion.

Rodge wrote: if we ever have an artist capable and willing.

A few others and me are already trying to give this game a more hand drawn look



AxlTrozz's temple http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopi ... &start=240

itz cool, made me remember the FF7 to the FF9.
Looks like a good idea, but, can be made on this server?
(server.themanaworld.org)

It sounds like purely a matter of effort and stick-to-it-iveness. It's like Crush has stated, it's theoretically possible, just a very demanding set of goals.

How many times must I say this, you all seriously underestimate what can be done with a tileset ><!!!!!

Just look at the lost garden tileset
http://lostgarden.com/2006/07/more-free ... phics.html

Hey, tiles are wonderful and as you've pointed out in the past, they can fool the eye in to ignoring the repetition, when efficiently manipulated, but you can't deny the potential of a map that is painted as a single, non-recyclable image. ..and besides, it wouldn't really be a "single image"; it'd still be a tileset.

Len wrote:

Rodge wrote: if we ever have an artist capable and willing.

A few others and me are already trying to give this game a more hand drawn look

Oh, sorry, didn't mean it like that. I meant, capable and willing to do the high res bitmap method. I see that tilesets can be much more impressive than I thought, especially that lost garden one. It also would give us a very unique look to have very high resolution tile sets, and of course the flexibility us a plus. I'm especially impressed and inspired by this one http://lostgarden.com/uploaded_images/i ... 733612.jpg

However, I think it's obvious that the tile sets that we're using at the moment (at least in svn) are not of that calibur. You are getting closer to it with that first picture you posted though.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm totally behind tile sets if they are better resolution / quality than the ones we have now. Otherwise I don't see us getting close to something like say, Legend of Mana, much less Odin Sphere *drools*.

dabe wrote:Hey, tiles are wonderful and as you've pointed out in the past, they can fool the eye in to ignoring the repetition, when efficiently manipulated, but you can't deny the potential of a map that is painted as a single, non-recyclable image. ..and besides, it wouldn't really be a "single image"; it'd still be a tileset.

Sorry to nitpick, but if it's one image, it isn't a tileset. I think you mean we'll move over it in certain places like the tiles anyway.

Rodge wrote:Sorry to nitpick, but if it's one image, it isn't a tileset. I think you mean we'll move over it in certain places like the tiles anyway.

I'm simply assuming that you want to do this without making any modifications to the software, which means that yes, technically, if you wanted to use a "single-image" map (used quotes for a reason) it would still have to be broken up in to tiles to be implemented. I guess I could be totally butt-ass wrong about that, but hey.. I guess we'll see if I get corrected or not.

Rodge wrote: I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm totally behind tile sets if they are better resolution / quality than the ones we have now. Otherwise I don't see us getting close to something like say, Legend of Mana, much less Odin Sphere *drools*.

Yes, I've been pushing for improvements to the older tilesets for sometime now http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3575 (However as of late I have not had much time to even work on any of my current projects)

something like say, Legend of Mana, much less Odin Sphere *drools*.

I think we are going more for the SNES days like SD3, Secrets of Evermore, Secrets of Mana and Chrono Trigger... (but currently we are not even close to them visually)

Doing this would only require a small change to how maps are done (in theory). If the ability for background images was added (like the overlays but below the ground layer), a single image map could be put there and the unneeded layers left blank (or with some objects added, especially the overlay layer). This would also allow tileset maps to have more depth, and would be useful for the floating continent (an image of clouds in the background so they wouldn't look so static) for example.

jaxad0127 wrote:Doing this would only require a small change to how maps are done (in theory). If the ability for background images was added (like the overlays but below the ground layer), a single image map could be put there and the unneeded layers left blank (or with some objects added, especially the overlay layer). This would also allow tileset maps to have more depth, and would be useful for the floating continent (an image of clouds in the background so they wouldn't look so static) for example.

Yes using both would be very cool.

Len wrote:

something like say, Legend of Mana, much less Odin Sphere *drools*.

I think we are going more for the SNES days like SD3, Secrets of Evermore, Secrets of Mana and Chrono Trigger... (but currently we are not even close to them visually)

Ya, I'd like us to have the same general look as them too, but it is a huge mistake to constrain ourselves to such a low bitdepth or resolution to be exactly like them. They were made what, 10 years ago?

It is my understanding that there is currently no rule or guideline, constraining anyone to the bit-depth or resolution found in SNES titles. I believe when Len said that "we are not even close to them visually" .. he was referring to their graphical completeness and style.