The Mana World Forums

Platyna wrote: Economy doesn't exists at all, and we are unable to figure all aspects of these abuses. ... Would it make any difference when old quests will be re-implemented, so you could get in a honest way rare items (like in these times you could abuse a bug and do one quest all over again)? ... rare items should be rare.
And about levels, they would be wiped out too, but we could introduce quests that gives exp points as a reward.

AxlTrozz wrote:we did this already in the past, cut all the money to 50k (i think that was the amount of money) I lost 1M in the transition, but you can get that money back really quick, and by the way, All, I mean All the money will be zero "nada" when we move to the new server and yes you will have to start over again

Crush wrote:... resetting everyones money would be quite unfair for those who worked honestly for it.
The browser-based MMORPG Kingdom of Loathing faced the same problem once. Instead of doing a roleback or a money wipe they managed to cope with the problem in a very elegant way without even straining the established rules of the game world. http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/ind ... ack_Sunday (Note: "Meat" is the currency in the game)

Sertraline wrote:I should add that they also seem to have invented several new quests which could only be unlocked if an NPC was given so much money. A quick analysis could show how much money needs to be siphoned from the game and a mass community effort to gain these new quests would drain the money voluntarily.

Crush wrote:We are currently experimenting with recolorable equipment. This could be a good application for this.

There is an inaccessible building in Hurnscald which has currently no function. We could make it a tannery which allows to recolor your equipment, but it will only open when players collect a specified sum of money. When the money has been collected the tannery opens and recolors equipment for a small prize.

The excess money in the game can be easily determined: http://server.themanaworld.org/stats/top-money.txt Sum up the money of the top 50 richest and you got a good amount.

[13:58] <And1> Maybe we should test it for about 1 month or something and then - if it doesn't work (to get the excess money out of the game - Platyna may put up a wipe-vote again...)
[14:40] <blameu> i think it is a waste of time to fix/correct anything since the dev team has decided to abandon the Eathena server
[14:41] <blameu> the bugs will be gone once we enter the new TMWserv
[14:42] <blameu> so maybe we should focus on tmwserv rather then fixing the broken Eathena

Please read the following topics and cast your decision:

• Items/money/levels wipe.
  CASINO BUG ABUSE!!!!
  Casino Bug Poll

Feel free to discuss the weaknesses and merits of any solutions, as well as propose new ones.

What about making another server where this one will be able to be moved to the "new" server when change happens.

The current one can be left alone this is where those who don't want to change can play around. this way there is a choice to be made rather that the rape of long hours of toil and trouble even with bugs. The prospect of losing everything that I have done with no choice seems a bit heavy handed especially if we are all going to loose everything when the new server chang happens. (so going to be a twice rape)


JMHO

I think we still need to see the results of Platynas analysis of the userfile of why and to what extent the current situation is Duck up on the current server before we can decide what's the best course of action.

Platyna wrote:I have analyzed userfile and my impression is that it cannot be healed your way. What do you think?

Apparently when I added a new option to the vote it reset everyone's vote. I won't do that again--please vote again, sorry guys.

Honestly I don't like boring meetings and even more boring reports, especially that it seems I am the only one who ever was creating an economy system for RPG, but fine, in short...
You know how many players with level 40 we have? 2452, from 6698 who has level 20 - therefore these who are really playing the game, it is ALOT, and definately not possible in a healthy economy system, since level 40 is or rather should be, hard to get.

We have 807 players who has more than 50k gold, but 571of them has more than 100k and 206 of them has half a milion, it is deeply abnormal, considering our average players online is 50.

You are not going to fix it with "meat exchange" or by intruducing expensive items, since you can't make players to sell their high levels.

Regards.

Thanks for revealing this information, Platyna.

When high levels are a problem then how about reducing the levels logarithmical instead of doing a complete wipe? This would reduce the levels of high players more than those of low players. When we would apply the formula newlevel = oldlevel^0.9 we would end up with this: When you think that this reset is not extreme enough we can use a lower constant in the above formula.

To realize the corresponding loss of stats technically I would suggest to combine it with a stat reset. Every character gets reset to the level he is supposed to have according to the above formula with the exact exp amount necessary for the level, all stats get reset to 1 and the character gets the amount of stat points it is supposed to have on this level. Combining the level reduction with the opportunity to redistribute stats would also reduce players grief about this measure.



But the real problem is: How can we avoid that players reach the same level again in a short amount of time?

Really nice idea, Crush!

I already liked your first one concerning the re-color-thing... think it would both be good!

Andi =)

I was just thinking a similar thing to Crush.

• Players levels get halved.
• Money is cut to small value, say 10k.
• We ask Peavey very nicely to fix the fast attack.

I hate that idea, I worked up to my level; and second I don't think Peavey would want to fix the rapid attack bug.
I would rather see a money wipe than to have my level chopped in half. I leveled all the way up to 60 before even learning the rapid attack.

Quiche_on_a_leash wrote:I was just thinking a similar thing to Crush.

• Players levels get halved.
• Money is cut to small value, say 10k.
• We ask Peavey very nicely to fix the fast attack.

QOAL, Crush,

Quiche_on_a_leash wrote:I was just thinking a similar thing to Crush.

• Players levels get halved.
• Money is cut to small value, say 10k.
• We ask Peavey very nicely to fix the fast attack.

Wrt levels and the fast attack I can see something along these lines working as a `reasonable' compromise (though it benefits players like me who started recently and exploited the attack speed bug more than it ought to). However, the financial part I'm not sure about: players could try to mitigate this cut (a) by buying many items, and (b) by spreading out possessions over many accounts. Eliminating all non-rare items and cutting all gold down to 0 might help here, though, assuming players are informed about this early on.

ok , i think inflaction has really become a serious problem in TMW if this was a real country people would already be dieing of hunger , these are my suggestions:

-fix the trade system so that players cant give things away for free , but they have to get something in return , giving things for free is fatal against any economy stability , would make people work hard if they want something , makining it fairer and it would also end up with begging.

_ reduce the amount of items in game , this way items such as daggers , maggot slimes , would be more valuable and beginners would have more chances of wining money.

_The monster point system is a really bad thing , its just to easy to get items , the NPC could maybe give more DEXT,strength ;ABilities or something like that.

_There should be higher prices in shops , in current TMW you can just be nearly millionarie.

about leveling just make it harder to pass from one level to another.( more exp points for level)

-prices of buy/sell in shops do not correspond with players offer and demand i suggest a system
whre players talk with an NPC and vote in a kind of poll what they are willing to pay for each item and what they would ask for it . (Each player can vote once but they can change their own figures when ever they want) Then calculate shops prices according to this.

_would be calculated from average of all figures excluding the lowest and the highest to stop stupid people posting things such as (0) or(9999999999999999999999)

_The above polls could also apply to the minimum and maximum price a player can give to each item when trading from player to player.

_with or without polls there should be MIN and MAX when trading.

_ a more radical solution is to close all shops , so that trading is the only way. This would make players rely on each others and would stop abusive prices.

_An alternative to the above is no money in TMW so you can only exchange one item for an other with shops and/or players , this has the disadvantaged that no richness could be created in the economy.

_maybe no trading/speculating and making job NPC wich tell you to work for earning money.

Habari, a lot of the stuff you are suggesting goes far beyond a little bugfix or NPC script change but would mean a major redesign of eAthena features. That's what TMWServ is developed for.

Besides that real world economy has shown that any attempt to artificially control prizes of goods is hurting the economy more than it helps because it fights the symptoms and not the causes of problems in an economical system.

Platyna wrote:You know how many players with level 40 we have? 2452, from 6698 - therefore these who are really playing the game, it is ALOT, and definately not possible in a healthy economy system, since level 40 is or rather should be, hard to get.

Perhaps it should be, but it isn't. You said yourself you can reach level 60 in one week. This is the fault of eAthena/TMW dynamics, not money exploitation.

Also, this argument is a bit from left-field... Buying arrows is not the same as gaining levels. You could have infinite arrows, but it won't help you unless you take the time to level. Furthermore, I don't recall hearing someone complain "this economy would be so much better if only there weren't so many high level players!" The term "high level" is relative, after all...

We have 807 players who has more than 50k gold, but 571of them has more than 100k and 206 of them has half a milion, it is deeply abnormal, considering our average players online is 50.

A quick summation of the top 50 richest = ~780 million GP
(206-50) * 500,000 = 78 million GP

So require a maximum of 850 million GP to open up the recoloring tannery This would leave a player with 450,000 GP one of the richest in the game. That is very generous to the deflation end, considering upwards of around 100,000 GP is a very plausible amount to earn honestly in the game without trading.

ok crush , maybe there are to big reforms but helping economy has never been easy , and yes i know in no good to make up artificial economy , i dont want a kind of a communist Mana World , but i think some help is needed in mayor catastrophes (like 1929 for example) and TMW is now at one of them . About causes and synthomps i would say the causes is that we have two parallel economies , the one of shops and NPC and the other players economy , we should find the way of integrate them. Even very capitalist states such as USA have a tiny bit of intervention (Taxes for example) , but TMW is just Anarchy. Wipe doesnt work if you dont fix the problem it will come up again. I remember you once fixed money to 10 000Gp and well we all know it didnt work.
And beside my measures could just be temporary or be tested and fixed , i welcome all constructive comments ....

So what if we cut the money and levels if players has large amounts of valuable items?

Regards.