Cursed Items

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Black Don
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Cursed Items

Post by Black Don » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:56 pm

I have toss this idea around and it has bee well received so I thought I would post it here for future consideration.

Right now all items have a benefit. I think it would be fun to have some negative effect items like in Net Hack. Helms that have a minus defense or a pair of boots that make you sit at random intervals.

Now of course people would just find out what items are cursed and avoid them thats why I say have cursed items look like ordinary items, until equipped but by then its to late it cursed and can't come off. "Is that a normal fancy hat or is it a cursed dunce cap of -5 def"

Ways to detect cursed items we could have an alter or other place of magic like stone or flower circles that you could lay the item in or when magic is in game there could be a detect curse spell. And the same to remove curse, or have a NPC witch or healer you have to pay to get Cursed item removed and detected (another possible money sink).


Some of my favorite Ideas for cursed items that have been thought of
Dunce Cap -5 Def and could also - INT when we get magic
Boots of sitting -3 def makes you sit at random times (could be bad if trying to avoid snakes and scrops)
ring or gloves of electrocution - 3 def can not regen health does damage every once in a while (it could also change the players hair cut to an Afro

Feel free to Yea or Nay and post your own cursed item ideas.

I know a lot of this probably will not be possible until TMWserv but thats okay this gives us a reference for this kinda thing for the future :)
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Sanga » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:17 pm

I know a lot of this probably will not be possible until TMWserv but thats okay this gives us a reference for this kinda thing for the future
Actually, I believe quite a bit could be done with the eAthena server. To date, the devs haven't made use of it, but the item definitions support a LOT of possible "bonus" attributes (both positive and negative bonuses).

Any of the base stats can get positive or negative bonuses. Your "cannot regen health does damage every once in a while" could be done by setting a negative regeneration rate.

I don't see any way to accomplish that "sit at random times" without actually making changes to the eAthena code. Too bad - that one looks like fun :D

And I don't really see these as "cursed" items - I can see a use for this idea to create some better balanced items. For instance, heavy armor with massive defense, but with penalties to AGI and DEX. Or an item that boosts your accuracy, but slowly drains your HP. The possibilities are endless.

I'll have a go at implementing some of these on my local server, and see what happens. At this point, I can see the (limited) documentation on them, but I don't know if or how well they work...
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Vink » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:18 am

I don't know if it matters to you, but if cursed (really harmful) items were introduced, I might actually stop playing, because all I see in that idea is stress and worries, no fun. However, I think that some annoying but harmless jinxes in items could be fun, such as:
  • Making the next emote you show get stuck
  • Making you look naked even though you're not
  • Making you say something silly once every minute, such as "I luuuuv you!" or "Buying maggot slimes, 500 gp each." or "Spock for president!"
I also think that Sanga's idea about items that increase one attribute but decrease another sounds interesting.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by leeor_net » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:18 am

If you're serious that you'd quite a game because there may be items added to it that could cause harmful effects than you should probably just quit playings games all together. How many things are there in the real world that could seriously harm you if you picked them up? Thousands, if not tens of thousands of things. You probably live around such dangerous items right now. Why wouldn't there be something like that in a game? It's all a matter of 1) realism and 2) being cautious about what you pick up and 3) being aware of your character. You take care of yourself in real life and you don't pick up every last thing you see... the same principle applies in virtual worlds.

Anyway, back to the point at hand, I think items with negative attributes is a great idea. And, while much of it is possible to implement with eathena, TMWSERVE is close to being ready to come online (according to the devs) so it may be more useful to just wait to develop them for the new server. That's mho anyway.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Ces » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:14 am

In the games I’ve played I’ve noticed this:

a) Cursed items (only negative attributes, with the same appearance as other non-cursed items) works in single player RPGs where you don’t have much choice about it but to use/wear the item. In MMORPGs they often are more of a hazzle the players work around than adding to game’s “enjoyability” or aesthetic value. In some games most players run with all rare or much valued drops to the NPC whom checks them for curses, if that costs money unworthy drops loose their value.

Though, I know I’ve seen these purely “negative” cursed items get a player value in some games (but I can’t for the world recall any of them), I think mainly from different looks (the cursed items’ appearances are different to the non-cursed ones), that is, some clans will want their members to always these Sorrowful Black Caps of Lesser Dexterity, just to show how much they “p8wn”, or the supersized (double that of ordinary ones) Fruit Bowl Hat which are worn by some players regardless of all its negative buffs just because it makes them look cool.

b) Items with mixed positive and negative (only positive/negative is possible too, of course) effects usually adds to the gameplay, both in terms of an wider range of items and a less boring succession of armors et c. (Hm, I think Diablo might have been one of the first games I played which made this approach somewhat fun, but I possibly forget some other games.)

Vink, having negative effects possibly can get the extreme commercialism of TMW (items, items, items! money, money, money!) somewhat loosened/lessend, as you’ll become more careful with what you pick up, try on, wear, sell and throw away. Good for the environmentalists of TMW. ;) (One fun thing I see being tried/developed in some MMORPGs is that of a more dependent environment, e. g. if you don’t plant new trees while chopping down the old ones, new ones won’t grow up. Fun concept, I hope more games will explore these aspects, as I think they really will add to gameplay, and bring in a realistic aspect to the gaming that’s surely needed “in real life”.)
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by 5t3v3 » Sun Apr 20, 2008 1:57 pm

I agree with the mixed values. Cursed negative values should be about balancing out the values. For example an item gives +20 agility, should give -50 attack. A person with high attack and low agility might choose to wear it anyway, and pay the price for it.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Vink » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:23 pm

Well, I said I might stop playing, and if I would do so it would be because I was no longer enjoying the game enough to find it worthwhile, which I think is a perfectly sensible reason to stop playing.

If you want to compare with real life, I don't think I would enjoy being in a place where I can't know if the items I pick up are dangerous or not. I would probably leave such a place if I could.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by fate » Sun Apr 20, 2008 3:11 pm

Hi,

I used to be in favour of adding cursed items, until I read Ces' splendid discussion on that matter-- and I am inclined to believe him that cursed items might be more tedious than fun. Furthermore, I am beginning to fear that the players who might suffer most might be low-level players on whom these are dumped (and giving low-level players a cheap way to remove a curse would add a loophole for higher-level players to do the same).

On the other hand, the idea of balancing items (by e.g. adding encumbrance to armour) sounds excellent to me. Those of you who have participated in dungeon raids with larger parties might be familiar with the problem of finding your own character amongst the mass of people wearing warlord helmets, light plate mail, and jeans chaps-- this problem is merely a symptom of the larger problem (or, rather, `unused opportunity') that Ces is pointing out here.

I still see a value in purely cursed items as quest items, though, since cursed items are natural MacGuffins. (Of course, the penalty of bearing a curse should come with an adequate reward at the end, or the entire quest might be perceived as a meaningless and cruel trap by many).

Edit: Credit for the idea of balancing items also goes to Sanga, of course, who brought up this idea before Ces. Apologies for my lack of accuracy here!
Last edited by fate on Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Vink » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:10 pm

Perhaps I should have mentioned that I'm not against the idea of harmful items. For example, I think it would be natural if people were poisoned when picking up scorpion stingers, especially the red ones, at least if they're not wearing gloves. Maybe the maggot slime could reduce your dexterity for a while. I imagine that it's sticky. :)

What I am against is the idea of cursed items, as in items that appear to be beneficial but are actually harmful.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Sanga » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:26 pm

Just a follow-up...

Those "bonuses" I mentioned DO work as advertised with the eAthena server. So the idea of "balanced" items can be implemented without having to wait for TMWserv.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Dave » Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:32 pm

I've worked my way around cursed items in MUDs for years, without ever being so frustrated that I felt like leaving the game. I'm of the opinion that occasional obstacles such as these can be fun, because it gives you something to do, other than mindlessly hunting mobiles. If you end up with a cursed item, you're going to have to strive to remove it, either by seeking out help from an individual, or by obtaining a proper consumable.

It seems like plenty of perfectly sound ideas for in-game obstacles are suggested, but get shot down because people want the game to be so laid back and easy, that they can just coast along and only avoid being killed.. and even that was whined about to such an extent, that the current plan for the death sequence is just a time-waster, with no resulting penalty of any significance. So even getting killed isn't really a big deal. :?

I still worry that we're trying to make the environment a bit too easy. Designing a system to avoid the common pitfalls of MMORPGs is one thing, but protecting players from every minor inconvenience to the point of making the game 100% idiot proof, seems to have the potential to make the environment boring.
Actually, I believe quite a bit could be done with the eAthena server.
..gawd. eAthena is such a dead horse. Let's not ride it any further than we have to.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Superkoop » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:01 pm

I'm all for having some cursed items in the game.
But, only if the cursed items are recognizable by sight, i.e. a rotten apple. Since if we are going for somewhat realistic, we would be able to tell if an item is bad or not.
Because in my time of playing games, all cursed items ever do for me is piss me off. Like, I find an awesome shield, and then I discover after I am using it that I am losing health. Or, I eat an apple and then I discover that I just lost 50hp and I now died. >.<

Curses are okay, but only if they are readily recognizable.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Sanga » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:07 pm

Dave wrote:
Actually, I believe quite a bit could be done with the eAthena server.
..gawd. eAthena is such a dead horse. Let's not ride it any further than we have to.
I'm talking about configuration level changes - nothing more difficult than adding any other new items.

And at this point, riding that dead horse is our only option, until TMWserv gets around to being born.
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Dave » Sun Apr 20, 2008 11:43 pm

Superkoop wrote:I'm all for having some cursed items in the game.
But, only if the cursed items are recognizable by sight, i.e. a rotten apple. Since if we are going for somewhat realistic, we would be able to tell if an item is bad or not.
Because in my time of playing games, all cursed items ever do for me is piss me off. Like, I find an awesome shield, and then I discover after I am using it that I am losing health. Or, I eat an apple and then I discover that I just lost 50hp and I now died. >.<

Curses are okay, but only if they are readily recognizable.
As far as consumables go, (and using your apple example) I wouldn't consider a rotten apple to be cursed. Just rotten. :? ..a cursed apple would be more like what Snow White encounters; a fresh even perfect-looking apple, masking a supernaturally negative quality. Something like this obviously has to be balanced, but would it be so ridiculous to have something like this, perhaps temporarily poison you, rather than instantly causing damage? If the our hypothetical curse feature only went to the extent to offer bad effects for obviously spoiled consumables, it would seem nearly pointless. (since only a dunce would intentionally continue to chow down on food that was noticeably bad, after the first bite)

One of my favorite examples of a cursed item from a MUD I no longer play, was a rather rare sword, which for its level, dealt great damage and randomly cast the spell, "Vampyric Touch".. For some characters, it's just a cool item, which happens to load cursed, but for someone trying to retain their goodness, being forced to use the evil vampyric spell gradually eats away at your alignment; bad news for a Paladin.

Without quoting or rereading the entire thread to recall who made the point, I agree think there's room for cursed items, considering the difference between items that are designed to be cursed (intentionally balanced as a cursed item) and an "after-market" curse, applied by a player. Maybe items can only become cursed during the creation process.

..and sadly, though I totally support the use of a cursed item feature, I will have to admit that I don't see it happening, because it would have to be well planned (enough to avoid abuse and remain balanced), well worded (because everyone needs to be pleased :lol: ) and fit comfortably with the rest of the game system. ..I just felt the need to chime in because I think it's sad that most small obstacles which are suggested, unrelated to hack-and-slash, seem to be received as nothing but annoyances. No cursed items, no penalty for dying, no thievery, no pvp outside a sanctioned arena.. this game is shaping up to have very little chest hair. :x
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Re: Cursed Items

Post by Vink » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:35 am

Dave wrote:No cursed items, no penalty for dying, no thievery, no pvp outside a sanctioned arena.. this game is shaping up to have very little chest hair. :x
Well, not all people want chest hair. Those things you're complaining about (but actually there is thievery already, in the form of drop stealing) are the things I like most about this game, after socializing. I also like the cute graphics very much (never liked that "serious" look in for example WoW). If things to do are needed, why not add something enjoyable to do instead of something giving you trouble? I guess we are looking for different things in this game. You want obstacles, I just want to have a good time. You think it's potentially boring because it's laid back, I get bored by games where it's hard to relax.

I also agree with Superkoop, it's more realistic if you can see that there's something wrong with the item.
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