Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

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Black Don
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Black Don » 21 Jun 2008, 04:48

I was also thinking today since we are adding layers why not 2 layers for the base sprite as well for races that may have large wings like the Sperions (Did I spell that right? I'm to tired to and lazy to go check)
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Booty » 21 Jun 2008, 08:10

Black Don wrote:I was also thinking today since we are adding layers why not 2 layers for the base sprite as well for races that may have large wings like the Sperions (Did I spell that right? I'm to tired to and lazy to go check)

Ooo.... I like that. That way you could also have different styles and colors of wings like hair.
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Sanga » 21 Jun 2008, 12:30

jaxad0127 wrote:
Sanga wrote:Can you give me the a new ordering, based on this "symmetrical layers" idea?
SHIELD_BOTTOM_SPRITE
WEAPON_BOTTOM_SPRITE
HAT_BOTTOM_SPRITE
HAIR_BOTTOM_SPRITE
CAPE_BOTTOM_SPRITE
GLOVES_BOTTOM_SPRITE
MISC2_BOTTOM_SPRITE
MISC1_BOTTOM_SPRITE
TOPCLOTHES_BOTTOM_SPRITE
SHOES_BOTTOM_SPRITE
BOTTOMCLOTHES_BOTTOM_SPRITE
BASE_SPRITE
BOTTOMCLOTHES_SPRITE
SHOES_SPRITE
TOPCLOTHES_SPRITE
MISC1_SPRITE
MISC2_SPRITE
GLOVES_SPRITE
CAPE_SPRITE
HAIR_SPRITE
HAT_SPRITE
WEAPON_SPRITE
SHIELD_SPRITE
I'm trying to visualize these layers, and I think there's a problem with this order. Is there *any* situation where we'd want the HAIR_SPRITE or HAT_SPRITE drawn over top of the GLOVES_SPRITE? In cases where the gloves are moving behind the head, they should be drawn on GLOVES_BOTTOM_SPRITE, rather than GLOVES_SPRITE...

Based on this, I think the gloves should be moved outward, to between hat and weapon.
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Black Don
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Black Don » 21 Jun 2008, 15:14

Sanga wrote:
jaxad0127 wrote:
Sanga wrote:Can you give me the a new ordering, based on this "symmetrical layers" idea?
SHIELD_BOTTOM_SPRITE
WEAPON_BOTTOM_SPRITE
HAT_BOTTOM_SPRITE
HAIR_BOTTOM_SPRITE
CAPE_BOTTOM_SPRITE
GLOVES_BOTTOM_SPRITE
MISC2_BOTTOM_SPRITE
MISC1_BOTTOM_SPRITE
TOPCLOTHES_BOTTOM_SPRITE
SHOES_BOTTOM_SPRITE
BOTTOMCLOTHES_BOTTOM_SPRITE
BASE_SPRITE
BOTTOMCLOTHES_SPRITE
SHOES_SPRITE
TOPCLOTHES_SPRITE
MISC1_SPRITE
MISC2_SPRITE
GLOVES_SPRITE
CAPE_SPRITE
HAIR_SPRITE
HAT_SPRITE
WEAPON_SPRITE
SHIELD_SPRITE
I'm trying to visualize these layers, and I think there's a problem with this order. Is there *any* situation where we'd want the HAIR_SPRITE or HAT_SPRITE drawn over top of the GLOVES_SPRITE? In cases where the gloves are moving behind the head, they should be drawn on GLOVES_BOTTOM_SPRITE, rather than GLOVES_SPRITE...

Based on this, I think the gloves should be moved outward, to between hat and weapon.
there is one frame of animation were the hand moves completely in front of the head. up facing(north) reaching for arrow from quiver. So ya moving the glove sprite would fix that and does not look like that placement would not interfere with any thing else.
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Sanga » 22 Jun 2008, 00:02

Black Don,

I realize that most of the cape wasn't your work, but, well, there are some problems with it.

First off, there appears to be a light outline around the cape. I didn't notice at first, as it's pretty much invisible against the desert background. Once I got onto a paved road, it really jumped out at me:
Look Here

The second thing is that a tiny bit of the cape is appearing out of place, during what I think is the first frame of the arrow-attack animation while facing left. I'm guessing it's clipping a tiny part of the cape from the frame immediately to its left.

(Sorry, I wasn't able to capture it in a screen shot).
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Black Don
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Black Don » 22 Jun 2008, 15:24

Sanga wrote:Black Don,

I realize that most of the cape wasn't your work, but, well, there are some problems with it.

First off, there appears to be a light outline around the cape. I didn't notice at first, as it's pretty much invisible against the desert background. Once I got onto a paved road, it really jumped out at me:
Look Here

The second thing is that a tiny bit of the cape is appearing out of place, during what I think is the first frame of the arrow-attack animation while facing left. I'm guessing it's clipping a tiny part of the cape from the frame immediately to its left.

(Sorry, I wasn't able to capture it in a screen shot).
The cape has way more problems then that. The animation is also way to jumpy and erratic. I did try to keep it under control. I only did it so you had something to test with. It was a 2 day hack job. This cape was never meant to stay in game.
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Sanga
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Sanga » 24 Jun 2008, 00:33

Ok, the gloves are proving to be a major headache. Having the gloves "outside" of the cape layer will not work. Here's a screenshot
Moving them to the GLOVES_BOTTOM_SPRITE is not a solution - then they'll be below the base sprite (without a cape, we'd see the hands, not the gloves.

Here are two frames from the playerset that really illustrate the problem: image
In the top frame (from the "walking north" animation, we'd need the gloves to be below the cape at all times. In the bottom frame (from the "arrow attack north animation"), we'd want the gloves to be above everything (cape, hat, hair).

The bottom frame illustrates another issue - in this case, we'd want the not only the glove to be drawn above the hair and hat top sprite, but the hand of the base sprite at well. And if the character is wearing a long-sleeve shirt, then the sleeve of that shirt needs to be drawn above the hat and hair "top" sprites as well...

Anyone have a suggestion for how to handle this?
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Jaxad0127 » 24 Jun 2008, 01:09

Some future hats may be large enough for the hand to be behind them in the bow animation.

Moving the cape outside the gloves should be good enough for most animations. Additional layers may be needed.
Image
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Black Don
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Black Don » 24 Jun 2008, 01:41

Sanga wrote:Ok, the gloves are proving to be a major headache. Having the gloves "outside" of the cape layer will not work. Here's a screenshot
Moving them to the GLOVES_BOTTOM_SPRITE is not a solution - then they'll be below the base sprite (without a cape, we'd see the hands, not the gloves.

Here are two frames from the playerset that really illustrate the problem: image
In the top frame (from the "walking north" animation, we'd need the gloves to be below the cape at all times. In the bottom frame (from the "arrow attack north animation"), we'd want the gloves to be above everything (cape, hat, hair).

The bottom frame illustrates another issue - in this case, we'd want the not only the glove to be drawn above the hair and hat top sprite, but the hand of the base sprite at well. And if the character is wearing a long-sleeve shirt, then the sleeve of that shirt needs to be drawn above the hat and hair "top" sprites as well...

Anyone have a suggestion for how to handle this?

The only way around this I can see is a special layer just for the glove and the sleeve for this one frame of the animation
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Sanga
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Re: Ranger hat flap under armor from back view.

Post by Sanga » 24 Jun 2008, 02:36

jaxad0127 wrote:Some future hats may be large enough for the hand to be behind them in the bow animation.

Moving the cape outside the gloves should be good enough for most animations. Additional layers may be needed.
I don't think that's a viable solution. If the cape is moved outward, it'll be above hair, which means that styles with long hair won't be able to hang down over the cape. That won't look very nice...
Black Don wrote:The only way around this I can see is a special layer just for the glove and the sleeve for this one frame of the animation
That idea makes my hair stand on end. Because experience has taught me that once there's a "special case", there will be another, and another, and another...

I'd really like to nail this down conceptually, come up with a solution that'll handle everthing we can think of, and then call it "job done".

Or at least get it to where all of the equipment currently available, plus weapons, shields, and capes, will work without any graphical glitches..
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