My Resignation from HMC, "Groups" and "Los Viscerales"

[Wombat]

For those not in the know, I was both a member of HMC for a few months and I have resigned to help found a new group. I am providing these details for other players to understand the origins of Los Viscerales for the record. From my homepage:

Hello Holy Mana Clan!

This will be my final update as a member of the HMC. Due to a conflict with the practiced consensus of the HMC on how we should operate in the arena as players, I am leaving the guild. I have no intentions of spreading ill will, but I do and will continue to where the glory of pvp combat resides.

My present game ethics and the ethics of my newly founded guild "Los Viscerales" is based on the incessant testing of the individual in conflict as the only path to true knowledge. As warriors, we never know ourselves until we have drawn blood on an opponent worthy in battle...and an opponent has drawn blood on us. We can hold no sympathy for others in arenas of open conflict. Los Viscerales will test even its membership and stand idly by as our own membership is attacked should it be seen as a worthy test of combat prowess. The joy of war should be embraced and Los Viscerales will take the initiative in instigating player conflict and defining the rules of war on our own personal whim.

On several ethical matters, I feel the HMC has failed in multiple areas that have lead me to this path. I challenge HMC to do better and exemplify the meaning of "Holy". While I strive for combat purity with honor, the level of tolerance towards rule breaking taints my perception of what the HMC should be. I do agree with tolerance, but the clan has failed to "out" membership caught botting, especially when that member has befriended the leadership. I have personally caught Trelos botting, for example and I outted him. Tarax was questioned about botting outside the clan, but none of the leadership made an issue of this. Even after rocketnick was banned, I was the only one that wanted to put some thought into this developing problem.

I must applaud many members that I enjoy good associations with, such as Steve, doorsman and imax. I desire honest rivalry with the leadership of HMC and find its leadership to be the type of stuff Los Viscerales is looking for. We hope these heroes can route the problems within their clan and bring conflict to us, Los Viscerales, champions of the ego, dominators of the arena.

Another issue is based on the HMC's treatment of newbies. As time has progressed in the game, my contempt for the weak has grown. I feel that HMC has made several attempts to fix this problem, but without a contrary guild to define the "holy" in "Holy Mana Clan" the guild has become a daycare center for corrupt insiders, beggars and crybabies. My frustrations have grown to where my own attempt at ethics can no longer tolerate the uncompetitive relationship with newbies, the frustrations of crybabies and the knowledge that I am alone in seeking a strong order.

However, I cannot escape the need for allies and so I can no longer hold an opinion on botting. It is the opinion of "Los Viscerales" that power leveling* is superior to botting and accounts for my swift rise in power. Seek the strongest foes possible and eliminate them en masse! That is all.

Los Viscerales will be Godlike!

Wombat, Leader of Los Viscerales

* Power leveling is the procedure of constant and high-speed leveling in computer fantasy games.

---
Based on several conversations among the new membership of Los Viscerales we decided to avoid the "guild" label and feel that calling Los Viscerales a guild confuses its purpose. Though currently on my user page, I wanted to open up conversation on its addition to the wiki among players before I put up the entry for TMW wiki signing approval:

Groups

Groups are looser associations than guilds. Groups differ from guilds in that they don't offer mutual protection, shared resources or perks. Instead, groups are a way of comparing players between players using tmw statistics and other criteria to understand player standings within the group. Both individuals and individual guild members may participate in groups.

Los Viscerales

Los Viscerales translated into English means "from the gut". Los Viscerales are champions of the ego and seek to dominate in all areas of conflict with the strongest of beasts and the most skilled warriors. Los Viscerales believes that truth can only be found in open conflict, testing the individual's combat prowess as well as others. Participants within Los Viscerales seek perfection in combat and it is the goal of the group to create as perfect of warriors as can be achieved.

Meetings

Los Viscerales has meetings every Monday 03:00 UTC starting in Tulimshar's market area for brief introductions then we move into the arena. Meetings are usually brief and meeting times can be used to test and compare ideas on power leveling, statistical perfection, hunting strategy, merchant pricing and so on. Individuals are expected to make the meetings a worthwhile experience and bring their ideas to the table. We are currently accepting ideas on developing rivalries using game legal though unscrupulous means to instigate problems (and plot developments) between players in the game.

Participants

* Wombat, Leader

* kaiser, Whip

* Foolish

* Kage

* khronnos

* soldado

* Automatic James

* Phanatik

* Ryshyrr

* kutaho

* z0ro

* caza recompenza

* jabiel

* Lord Rambler

* wolfestrogen

* Long Shot

* AnnaB

* Dimond

* star2

If you would like to be added to the participant roster, email me hpwombat(at)yahoo(dot)com or talk to Wombat or kaiser in the game. Participate with us and strive to be the best!

[evadem]

Wombat you have always been free to create your own clan and do whatever your heart desires within TMW as long as it is done within the rules of TMW.
As for Tarax botting, he freely admitted doing so in an attempt to see how it worked. Tarax wasn't removed from the clan because at that time I warned members first, then if I caught them doing so again removed them from clan membership. This was what I did with Delete prior to removing him. As a matter of fact he responded to my emailed warning to him that he wasn't even aware he was a member.
HMC leaders have always handled member issues as they felt was best. It has never been up for vote or member review. If members don't agree with these actions they were free to express their opinions.
I am no longer in the leadership position of HMC and have no say in clan matters. But I feel confident that Doorsman, Imax, and Steve will continue making HMC the best it can be for all in the game.

Good luck with your clan.

[sugarcorgit]

Wombat You having a clan is no different then HMC having a clan. The administrator here lists the rules no one else. I cant find one good reason how its in good taste for you to bash another clan. I have personally long since tired of folks thinking any clan dictates how the rules are decided.

As far as botting, if you feel someone is botting, just like everyone else who plays the game, report it to a GM in private and let them handle their job.

Now I see some ridiculous thread you have started that Trelos is botting. He has more dedication to working his char up to a high level then most. Including enough personal honor to do so without cheating.

I will not name names here but I will say the next time I catch one of your members botting I will report it. And yes I have caught one before.

Oh and Wombat the next time I happen to be where you are training please dont announce to me you are "God', most distasteful.
sugar

[bigglesworth]

Wombat,

So you guys/gals level up, brag to one another about your stats, beat on yourselves in the single pvp map, and then finally run around trying to drop steal and frustrate the newbies?

That's one hell of a manifesto. Are you sure you even needed to form a group to do this?

The only merit I see is that your group does provide an alternative organisation. I'll you give you all that one, I'm just not inspired to sign up yet.

[kutaho]

Los Viscerales here I come ...

[Wombat]

Trelos Reloaded Caught Botting

HMC has rules, not just the adminstrator:

Clan rules

The rules of the game, as posted by Platyna are:

* 1. Do not abuse other players (it means insults, swearing etc.)
* 2. No bots.
* 3. No spamming/flooding (including trade spam).
* 4. No begging.
* 5. Speak English on public chat.
* 6. RFC 1855 (follow netetiquette).

Additionally we have two clan rules:

* 7. Be on your best behavior; meaning be nice and helpful as much as possible both to members as non-members alike. Do not onto others what you wouldn't like done to yourself. And when somebody does something provocative, try being the bigger person.
* 8. Do not join other clans while remaining a member of HMC.

HMC has ignored botting of its own membership or has looked the other way when caught. People caught botting receive "warnings" from HMC when I checked into the matter while still a member, but to my knowledge, I was the only member concerned with the botting going on within HMC. With the new court forum and gm system in place, this will be less of a problem overall, but as sugarcorgit stated, HMC is its own club and should enforce its rules internally if it is to mean anything. If the "holy" in "Holy Mana Clan" doesn't mean anything about striving for a better game ethic, I suggest you change your name, because it sounds like y'all should be paladins.

And sugar, I know you can catch my rogues gallery of powerhouses doing what your in-game husband did to get powerful. If they get caught, boo hoo, they were stupid. I don't advocate and I personally despise botting, but with hypocrites like the HMC dominating with their corrupt insiders, I need to organize who I can.

Also sugar, Los Viscerales is not a clan, it is a group. My letter of resignation was just that, a letter of resignation. It was written to explain why I resigned. If you consider exposing facts bashing HMC, oh well.

I am god.

[evadem]

Proves nothing! Just let it go Wombat.

[Wombat]

Proves nothing? That was months ago dave and it was reported (see the hyperlink for more pictures...I've got about 50 of them in a hour span with Trelos standing there). I know and Trelos knows. But as I said, we now have a GM system in place which is enforcing the rules and I must applaud their efforts. We probably won't see a repeat of this, especially with denis (yet another HMC member) getting caught botting. Hopefully it sends a message to all, not just to HMC and LV.

[Black Don]

Judging a clan by a hand full of low ranking members. Sounds like a bad idea. Its not like people join the HMC just to get some PP and a couple coveted rares, right Wombat?

[Wombat]

"So you guys/gals level up, brag to one another about your stats, beat on yourselves in the single pvp map, and then finally run around trying to drop steal and frustrate the newbies?"

Over the halloween event, we enjoyed a great deal of pvp combat. Currently we have high hopes that an active pvp map will be considered, but we aren't going to wait to enjoy pvp. We will organize pvp competitions in the future.

LV is not "drop stealing", I am. I also am not specifically targeting newbies, but rather the closest monster and/or the closest person. It is my desire to get drops that are hard to get as fast as I can get them and if another person is fighting to get the same and they keep showing up on my map, I'll target them to move them out of my line of sight. Usually the other player finds their own space, but when it is crowded, we are probably fighting to get drops. Most players in areas with uncommon drops are more than willing to compete with me. Not to lie, they usually steal more from me than I from them. I probably could save the cigarette for later, but I like to smoke and play

We compare stats and talk about how to power level in different high level areas, such as the Pit, the Snake desert and the Desert Mountains. When we run into each other, we occasionally will group up for a brief skirmish with snakes, but its more important for participants to form their own personal alliances outside of LV than to rely on LV as a source of alliance. HMC membership is allowed to participate in LV, get listed on our roster, compare stats and also compete in our developing criteria for competitions.

I hope that LV can also continue to enjoy HMC events, which are widely popular and I thank HMC for holding their events. I think our new group and the new GM system can act as a marker for the change coming in The Mana World.

Change is on the Way!

P.S. Black Don posted after I wrote this. Figured I'd respond. I did give props to HMC leadership for their exemplary behavior and I joined HMC to be a paladin. Consider me a fallen paladin that had hope in the group, but now only has hope in himself.

[the janitor]

I joined HMC to be a paladin. Consider me a fallen paladin that had hope in the group, but now only has hope in himself.

such drama
pvp is cool
warfare strategy is cool
competition is fun when its donne agains people than can and want to compete (no fun in harassing someone)
ksing noobs ? i say let em grow more chalenge for us later (no fun in harassing someone)
dropsteal its not against the rules we all have our own personal view on it (no fun in harassing someone)

as for clan membership
i thing we got ourself a little misunderstanding wombat
my janitor etiquete and the oath i swore when i became one prevent me from joining a clan
you know being a janitor is mostly a solitary life and i kinda like the freelance thing
when i talked to you i said i could participate in your lil discutions
strategy economy and such

remember i am a janitor
not a mere human
i have responsabilities lol

[Wombat]

noted

[5t3v3]

Wombat, a screenshot of a person not replying is inconclusive. How do we know he was indeed botting and not just iddeling? How do we know he hasn't put you on his ignore list? Do you have screenshots of him attacking? And still, do these screenshots of him attacking make it obvious that he was indeed afk? How do we know your chathistory wasn't made in a different screen? All practical problems that question your screenshots. To prove botting you need to report to a gm while in progress so they can check it out, or perhaps make a video of it. Screenshots are just to inconclusive.

[Wombat]

Of course they are inconclusive, it was not the purpose of my letter, nor my resurfacing of the picture, to expose Trelos to being banned. I'll again state that both Trelos and I know what occurred in the Bot Cave that day. Your attempt to throw doubt on what I said might matter to GMs, but not to me.

[Sharighan]

I want join !
Please wombat go to the game i have some things to talk with you : )
I want help in the game !