Changes to the new mine

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Automatic James
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Automatic James » 03 Dec 2008, 07:30

Vink wrote:For the record, even if that was not the purpose of the change, I'm very thankful for changes that make botting harder or less attractive, such as requiring that players move around a bit. I'm particularly thankful for such changes in big maps that are hard to check for bots, such as the new mine.

Also, though fighting solo and standing on the same spot may be more fun to some people, I think that this game should rather encourage co-operation and roleplay, to be the mmorpg it claims to be.
Tedious (moving around looking for things to fight) xp often encourages botting.

A game can easily accommodate multiple styles of leveling. This can actually contribute to the RPing aspect.
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Automatic James » 03 Dec 2008, 07:32

Automatic James wrote:
Vink wrote:For the record, even if that was not the purpose of the change, I'm very thankful for changes that make botting harder or less attractive, such as requiring that players move around a bit. I'm particularly thankful for such changes in big maps that are hard to check for bots, such as the new mine.

Also, though fighting solo and standing on the same spot may be more fun to some people, I think that this game should rather encourage co-operation and roleplay, to be the mmorpg it claims to be.
Tedious (moving around looking for things to fight) xp often encourages botting.

First ban of a botter in the new mines, AFTER the changes (by you even)

A game can easily accommodate multiple styles of leveling. This can actually contribute to the RPing aspect.
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Vink » 03 Dec 2008, 10:12

Automatic James wrote: Tedious (moving around looking for things to fight) xp often encourages botting.
Possibly. So you mean that in order to discourage them, it should be more easy for them to level up while botting? :?
Doesn't prove there were none before.
A game can easily accommodate multiple styles of leveling. This can actually contribute to the RPing aspect.
The silent and lazy warrior? :P
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by yasha » 03 Dec 2008, 16:23

I don't understand why you want a levels so much. The point of game is to have fun and get friends, not to be strongest and on biggest level. That's why it is GAME, not real life.

And where's fun standing on one place holding two keys????? That's just LAME...
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Automatic James » 03 Dec 2008, 18:42

Vink wrote:
Automatic James wrote: Tedious (moving around looking for things to fight) xp often encourages botting.
Possibly. So you mean that in order to discourage them, it should be more easy for them to level up while botting? :?
Doesn't prove there were none before.
A game can easily accommodate multiple styles of leveling. This can actually contribute to the RPing aspect.
The silent and lazy warrior? :P
Why is it easier to level up while botting with these types of camps? BOTS CAN MOVE, and botters don't care if the stream is mobs is not constant, because they are AFK. Regarding bans: no, I can't *prove" there were not bots in the new mine before it got nerfed, but I can prove there was at least one afterward. Can you prove it was a problem before? Heh.

It sounds like you're accusing anyone who likes to stand in one spot and xp of botting, or just being "lazy."

First of all, ya'll need to quit acting like pressing an arrow key takes so much effort and skill. It doesn't. I like being able to grind some serious xp out and maybe chat with a friend while xping.

I really don't like the paternalistic attitude coming from many people in this thread, especially devs and GMs. What do you want me to say "oh wow daddy you're right I'll level like a happy mommy club member now! where is sugarcorgit lets all hold hands and sing 'we are the world.'" :roll:
Automatic James
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Automatic James » 03 Dec 2008, 18:51

yasha wrote:I don't understand why you want a levels so much. The point of game is to have fun and get friends, not to be strongest and on biggest level. That's why it is GAME, not real life.

And where's fun standing on one place holding two keys????? That's just LAME...
Again: holding down two keys while occaisonally pressing a 3rd key is no more impressive. It does not take more skill. It does not make you a better player. Give that nonsense up.

Which part of leveling in a good camp vs. a nerfed camp prevents me from having fun or making friends? I was leveling in the new mines with friends before the nerf. We all had fun, because we enjoy chatting and getting nice xp. Often, I level or farm in different locations because I feel like running around getting some scenery while I'm getting xp, even if it's not as great of xp. Other times, we get a group together for the snake pit.

One of these options--my personal favorite--has been taken away. I would like it to be fixed, because it wasn't hurting anyone those who want to act like "the playstyle police."


To everyone in this thread:
I feel like I'm just repeating myself over and over. You all know what I mean, and you know I'm right.

Just go ahead and say "We won't fix your bot spot for you and your non-HMC dirty botter friends," because that's clearly what you people think.
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Vink » 03 Dec 2008, 22:35

Well, Automatic James, I certainly never meant to be paternalistic, or maternalistic for that matter. I only meant to express my appreciation to the devs who made the change in question, since they seemed to be getting a lot of negative feedback, for something that I think was a good change. You chose to argue about that and I responded, that's all. No hard feelings from my side at least. We can always agree to disagree. :)

As for your thoughts about HMC members not having to follow the rules... I have no problems at all with banning HMC members if they break the rules. However, as far as I know, we don't ban people for botting unless we catch them in the act of botting, and some people who were reported have not (yet?) been caught.
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Automatic James » 04 Dec 2008, 00:03

Vink wrote:Well, Automatic James, I certainly never meant to be paternalistic, or maternalistic for that matter. I only meant to express my appreciation to the devs who made the change in question, since they seemed to be getting a lot of negative feedback, for something that I think was a good change. You chose to argue about that and I responded, that's all. No hard feelings from my side at least. We can always agree to disagree. :)

As for your thoughts about HMC members not having to follow the rules... I have no problems at all with banning HMC members if they break the rules. However, as far as I know, we don't ban people for botting unless we catch them in the act of botting, and some people who were reported have not (yet?) been caught.
The change in question has led to: less interest in the new mine, and possibly more botting (While population parameters may elude us, the data that we DO have shows that 1 person has been banned for botting post-changes, zero people before).

I do have hard feelings, because your "side" seems to be that those of us who would rather pay more attention to the TV than to arrow keys are lazy and generally "wrong," and that pressing arrow keys while xping is somehow more noble and fun. No. Killing things in TMW is currently pretty boring. Working on things like magic, equipment, items, etc. will do far more to curb botting than ruining perfectly good xp spots and rationalizing the mistake rather than fixing it.

I think my OP in this thread was far too confrontational, but I'm not a big fan of edits. NOW, this venom is intentional. I feel like I'm making the same point over and over and getting back "nuh uh!"

In regard to bans and HMC: read Wombat's thread where BlackDon makes himself look like a fool and you'll get the gist of what I'm saying (maybe).
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Jaxad0127 » 04 Dec 2008, 00:08

Automatic James wrote:The change in question has led to: less interest in the new mine, and possibly more botting (While population parameters may elude us, the data that we DO have shows that 1 person has been banned for botting post-changes, zero people before).
There's also a time factor.
Automatic James wrote:I do have hard feelings, because your "side" seems to be that those of us who would rather pay more attention to the TV than to arrow keys are lazy and generally "wrong," and that pressing arrow keys while xping is somehow more noble and fun. No. Killing things in TMW is currently pretty boring. Working on things like magic, equipment, items, etc. will do far more to curb botting than ruining perfectly good xp spots and rationalizing the mistake rather than fixing it.
The combat system in TMWServ was designed to help address this.
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Automatic James » 04 Dec 2008, 00:14

jaxad0127 wrote:nuh uh!
See?
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Jaxad0127 » 04 Dec 2008, 00:34

Automatic James wrote:
jaxad0127 wrote:nuh uh!
See?
I never said that. If you are paraphrasing, what passage? Otherwise, people can easily see that I never said that, as none of my posts have been edited. ;)
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Vink » 04 Dec 2008, 01:01

Automatic James wrote: I do have hard feelings, because your "side" seems to be that those of us who would rather pay more attention to the TV than to arrow keys are lazy and generally "wrong," and that pressing arrow keys while xping is somehow more noble and fun.
Well, you seem to have a talent for making false assumptions and equally false accusations, then. Smileys like this :P are often used to show that a remark is humorous or not meant to be taken too seriously, so I didn't expect you to be offended by that lazy warrior thing. I have explained the TV issue in the other topic. I said that I think co-operation and roleplay are more suitable for a mmorpg, not that standing on the same spot is less noble or necessarily less fun.
Working on things like magic, equipment, items, etc. will do far more to curb botting
I believe help with that is welcome, so unless someone objects, go ahead and work on that. :)
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by z0ro » 04 Dec 2008, 01:46

So we're "lazy" because we enjoy staying in one place and kill monsters that comes to us? How is that "lazy"? How is "having our own kind of strategy" possible if we are being called "lazy"? Some people like moving, and that's fine with me but do you see us complaining about that? Oh you guys move too much! Stop moving and stay in one place! So tell me this, why can you guys have your own way of leveling up if we can't have our own way? In every game, there are always many different ways/strategies of different things (making money, leveling up, collecting items, etc). Not all strategies you find on the game are same, so I don't see why we have to be called "lazy" because we like doing what we enjoy doing.

I find this very unfair that we are actually "forced" to move around, using your strategy (not ours) because you guys think there are more possibilities of botting in new mine. Just because there are botters on the game doesn't mean we have to be "punished", as if we have done something which we haven't done anything. And like James said, there are more botters hanging in bat cave in the snow city and in the other bat cave above Dimond Cove.

I don't want to sound like I'm pissed because I am not. I just felt that I'm being treated unfairly because I enjoy doing a different way of leveling up that you guys do not enjoy.
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by Vink » 04 Dec 2008, 02:15

z0ro wrote:So we're "lazy" because we enjoy staying in one place and kill monsters that comes to us? How is that "lazy"? How is "having our own kind of strategy" possible if we are being called "lazy"?
As far as I know, no one accused you of being lazy. That was a joke about roleplaying and was marked as being a joke with a smiley.
Automatic James wrote:This can actually contribute to the RPing aspect.
Vink wrote:The silent and lazy warrior? :P
See? The smiley shows that it's a joke, and the joke could also have been understood from the context. If you knew me just a little you would also understand that I don't insult people on purpose.
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Re: Changes to the new mine

Post by z0ro » 04 Dec 2008, 02:44

Even though it was a joke, you are still calling us lazy :P It's like telling an old lady on her birthday "LOL you are old!!! haha just kidding!" but we all are thinking/knowing "she is old!" Maybe that was not the best example but you know what I mean? Joking or not, you are still thinking we are lazy because we don't move, which is why you made a joke about it which is why I made that post.

I'm tired and my English sucks so I hope you are able to understand this :P I don't have any problem with any of people posted on this thread, just bored and thought I'd post something because I DO enjoy killing monster and not having to move around.
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