feedback on the latest exp modification

Got something on your mind about the project? This is the correct place for that.
Forum rules
This forum is for feature requests, content changes additions, anything not a Bug in the software.
Please report all bugs on the Support Forums
tomminator
Peon
Peon
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:27 pm

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by tomminator » Sat Dec 13, 2008 5:23 pm

i like the idea of different exp for each monster, in real life everything is not to same either. maybe the difference with before is a litle to big. but after playing a while, i dont get the feeling i level up slower. so all in all, i like the update.

new monsters to fill up the gap between the snakes and the skull, jacko are welcome though
This is not a placeholder
evadem
Novice
Novice
Posts: 112
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:07 am
Location: Iowa - USA

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by evadem » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:27 pm

In the short time I have had to try out the new exp. and mutation sytems, it seems to me that the mutation leans more toward the lower range. While fighting snakes alone I see more 100-200 exp, then 200-300. Is it meant to work this way? I think the mutation system needs some tweaking to work.
I can understand the need to adjust monster experience points, since it was indeed a bit unbalanced. This is bound to cause complaining, but is just another one of many adjustments we have to get use to as the game evolves.
I really haven't notice much improvement in team fighting exp. so far. Still takes me about an hour to get 1% of next level in a group. Difficult to say what the average exp. is when fighting snakes in a group. I can barely tell where my char is half the time.
ikms
Peon
Peon
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 5:34 am

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by ikms » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:05 am

I also agree completely with doorsman on this.
But I do like the idea of a bonus for teaming up.

I am also one who mostly trains alone, and this is not always by choice, since playing around 4-9pm local time (3am - 8am GMT - its too early for most of Europe, and to late for many from the USA) , there are simply to few people to team up with.

So straight away our time-zone is at a severe disadvantage.

I would seriously suggest reconsidering 'the variable exp when training alone', and what can be done about a team of 1 person using their mules as the rest of their team to simply push the XP points up through the roof.

Regards
ikms
Last edited by ikms on Mon Dec 15, 2008 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Tellerium
Peon
Peon
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:31 am
Location: Inner Sanctum.....
Contact:

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Tellerium » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:20 am

Im not a huge fan of the new system, but as some other people have suggested, maybe we need to add some more items and critters to help fill in the gaps....

I'm in the same boat as Ikms, time is a huge factor, when there is only 20 people online and 10 of them are AFK, 5 of the remainder don't speak my language and the other 5 can't be found (or i cant whisper them to find out where they are because they have a space in their name!) it makes it very hard to find a group.

In light of that tho...

I was looking through the items in tmwdata and there is some items in there that could be added. ie, rings that could be quested to give damage bonuses (Ring of Damage - +50dmg, Ring of Defense - +10def, Adventurers Ring - +10% Exp etc.) these might help a bit.

And then there also needs to be a progression from the current weapons. We have seen the Bone Knife and Setzer, how about some more ranged weapons? There is already a Desert Bow in the items, why not use it? make it a similar quest to the bone knife, similar story line, maybe you need to speak to Kafhr's (??) friend about getting the bow made from the bones of the desert worm?

And then maybe there needs to be a new map or something, there was talk about an island, I like that and maybe make the journey a quest for higher lvl players, with a new town, higher lvl monsters to team up on (10k+ HP maybe?) and maybe some more quests for some of the new items I mentioned that also give some GOOD exp as well as items?

I think that with a few new elements to the game, the new variable system could work, there just needs to be more changes to compliment it.

Please feel free to flame me to the depths of hell for my views, but... heh thats all that are at the end of the day =P
Zach from Mildura, Victoria, Australia
Char's are JihadJack, CapitanAwesome, MadamAwesome, Astra
Visit my personal rant page @ http://www.one24chaffey.com
User avatar
fate
Novice
Novice
Posts: 400
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 3:34 pm

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by fate » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:27 am

Hi,

(Sorry, I had this one written up as a reply yesterday night but forgot to post it. I haven't had a chance to revise it to reflect recent comments, unfortunately, but I hope that it will still be useful.)

I have received quite a bit of feedback over the changes recently, both positive and negative. Since opinions are swinging both ways, I don't think that it would be wise to act quickly here. Instead, please allow me to explain (in slightly more detail) what the changes are and how they affect XP rewards. All of these are ideas that we are trying out and that we may re-adjust if it turns out that we were somehow dead wrong. (I say `we' here, but if you wish to assign blame to anyone about this, please assign it to me.)
  • Monsters are subject to mutations now. This means that most monsters (except for some newbie ones) will somehow be different, even if they look the same. For example, some snakes will be faster than others, or deal less damage, or have more hit points, or be easier to hit. This increases the variation of the monsters you will fight. Harder variations will give more XP, weaker variations will give less XP.
  • Boni for team play have been drastically increased. If you fight in a team of two, the monster will be worth 200% of its XP now, or 250% for three, up to 300% for six and more players. This means that if you fight with a friend, you only need half the hits for the same number of experience points (for example, a snake might now take three hits and give you 300 XP, instead of 5 hits for 400 XP as before. So that's 100 XP per hit instead of 80.) On average, you should be able to make XP faster if you play in teams.
  • Experience points have been rebalanced. Hard monsters now give considerably more XP, easy and medium monsters give a little less. The latter change is to offset the greatly increased boni for team play-- team players should still be able to level up faster than before.
Perhaps some of you are wondering why we are promoting team play. Here are the reasons:
  • Coordinating with other players takes extra effort and should thus be rewarded.
  • TMW is a multiplayer game (not a solo game with a chat room and shared highscore list); since the current game world design specifically de-emphasies PvP, this means that coop gameplay should be rewarded.
Overall experience point gains over time for solo players have been decreased to make room for the increased experience point boni for team players (our level advancement rate is already very high, as we can see from the high number of level 80+ players). I do realise that this means that some styles of gameplay are now harder and others are easier, but that was part of the point of the change.

I hope that the above information will help to adjust to the changes. Please feel free to provide additional feedback with the above information in mind; as I mentioned initially, everything is subject to change (if needed). :-)

-- fate
User avatar
Speedo
Peon
Peon
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:43 am

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Speedo » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:54 am

I'm with doorsman on this. It happens that I mostly train alone. My level is 63 and now it's impossible for me to advance. I kill Mouboos and Snakes and Red Slimes for 2 hours (or more but I don't want to admit it) and maybe get 2 percentage points closer to the next level. It's not worth it. Way too tedious! I've resorted to hunting for Cobalt plants -- nearly non-existant.
There must be some way to balance scoring to provide motivation for both types of players; loners and groupies.
I don't want to come off as a complainer because I'm in awe of the work you guys have done and am very grateful for the amount of thought and work you have put in to bring TMW to us. It's just that, for me, at this level, it's spoiled the fun.

Thanks...
niels.ellegaard
Peon
Peon
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:10 am

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by niels.ellegaard » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:30 pm

fate wrote:Hi,
[*] Boni for team play have been drastically increased. If you fight in a team of two, the monster will be worth 200% of its XP now, or 250% for three, up to 300% for six and more players. This means that if you fight with a friend, you only need half the hits for the same number of experience points (for example, a snake might now take three hits and give you 300 XP, instead of 5 hits for 400 XP as before. So that's 100 XP per hit instead of 80.) On average, you should be able to make XP faster if you play in teams.
Hmm... so if I run in circles in the mine and try to hit every monster once, then I should end up generating a lot of XP for myself and random other players. :P

I just gave it a try and it didn't really work. I will try again when the mine is not so empty.

BTW: I haven't done a lot of teamplay, but perhaps it becomes a little artificial to make sure that every player gets to hit every monster at least once before it dies. Maybe a future version of tmw could allow every monster to belong to some kind of herd. When the entire herd had been killed then the team play bonus could be shared among the players who had dealt damage to a member of the herd.
User avatar
doorsman
Novice
Novice
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:13 pm

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by doorsman » Sun Dec 14, 2008 4:57 pm

For the explanations Fate gave.. I tried both training (solo/in group) and still find the exp amount i can gain is far too low compared to what it was b4...Might me just me, but i really doubt it.

I would like confirmation or infirmations from players on this
Last edited by doorsman on Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Still on freenode network #manacentral. On the Web at www.manacentral.net

Patience, Integrity and Truth. A harsh Reality...

doors
User avatar
doorsman
Novice
Novice
Posts: 292
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:13 pm

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by doorsman » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:03 pm

Tellerium wrote:...(or i cant whisper them to find out where they are because they have a space in their name!)...
To whisper to someone with space in his nick do : /w "nick with spaces" working pretty well where. :lol:
Still on freenode network #manacentral. On the Web at www.manacentral.net

Patience, Integrity and Truth. A harsh Reality...

doors
Schnurzel
Peon
Peon
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:52 pm

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Schnurzel » Sun Dec 14, 2008 5:39 pm

I'm with doorsman on this. Me too, I mostly train alone. My level is 92 and now it's impossible for me to advance. I killed 1 1/2 hour snakes for 1 %. At the moment it's the first time after this 3 years of playing, that I'm really frustrated with a new update. :cry:
slobovian
Peon
Peon
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:15 am

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by slobovian » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:21 pm

My dad (slob) and I (slobovian) just started playing this game about a month ago and we love it. I wanted to talk to him and other people about the new exp update before I posted my opinion. We both like training by ourselves and even if we wanted to train together the chances of us running into eachother on the game is like 1% of the time because we don't always look at the text bar to see if some1 is whispering to us. Im lvl 57 and hes probally lvl 67 by now.

We don't really like the new exp system because it seems like we don't get as much exp as before. Red slimes used to give you 160exp I think and black scorpions 260exp. The mobs seem to take 3-4 hits to kill just like before but now the exp is half what we used to get. Now i get like 100exp for red slimes on average and 175exp for black scorpions.

I tried training in a group of people to see if getting exp was better that way and it didn't seem like it because when i tried clicking on the monsters it instead clicked onto somebody else name and i wasn't attacking anything. So instead I held down the ctrl button standing directly in front of the monster. That was irritating and another thing that always irritated me is when people take your drop items. I circled that cave with the group about 4 times around and seen dozens of items droped but never got 1 for myself so I do not like training with other people.

I agree with what Schnurzel just said "At the moment it's the first time after this 3 years of playing, that I'm really frustrated with a new update. " This is the first update i've seen and I don't really like it either. Sorry for writing such a long post but I think I said everything I wanted to. I really like this MMORPG and i'll try to contribute some help to it. Keep up the good work. Thank you for making it!--slobovian
User avatar
Crush
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 8046
Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:08 pm
Location: Germany

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Crush » Sun Dec 14, 2008 7:31 pm

I would suggest to deactivate the mutation system for now so that we can balance the exp share distribution more properly.
  • former Manasource Programmer
  • former TMW Pixel artist
  • NOT a game master

Please do not send me any inquiries regarding player accounts on TMW.


You might have heard a certain rumor about me. This rumor is completely false. You might also have heard the other rumor about me. This rumor is 100% accurate.
User avatar
MasterKenobi
Novice
Novice
Posts: 319
Joined: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:39 pm

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by MasterKenobi » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:39 pm

Crush wrote:I would suggest to deactivate the mutation system for now so that we can balance the exp share distribution more properly.

Seems very logical too me, as some tweaking is needed.

Also, after getting in a few hours of play time I think this new system will work out just fine after some tweaking. It is definitely more difficult to level when playing solo(for me - lvl 82) but not impossible.

Thx again for all your efforts.

MK
Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
slobovian
Peon
Peon
Posts: 6
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:15 am

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by slobovian » Sun Dec 14, 2008 8:45 pm

I feel a little bad because I posted why I didn't really like the update. So i'll tell you why I do like the update so you know that your work is good. I think its cool how the monsters are now subject to mutations meaning that some are stronger and some are weaker then others. I like that idea because it seems more realistic and I have never seen it like that on other games. Other games i've played like Zelda and Final Fantasy have the regular exp meaning every same monster is exactly alike. I like it the old way because you know what to expect but I like the new way too because it makes you fight a wider range lvl of monsters. I like the new way but try to fix it so people training alone get as much as they did before and training in groups gets extra sounds good.
User avatar
Rotonen
TMW Adviser
TMW Adviser
Posts: 3154
Joined: Wed Sep 08, 2004 8:48 pm
Location: Espoo, Finland

Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Rotonen » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:55 pm

We should probably make better use of enigma.dy.fi as a test server for stuff like this?

High rates, wipe on every new thing to be tested, rare treats for people to hold and have fun with there.

(It does not matter which server gets used as long as we have an official way to test stuff and get our community there to test stuff.)
This message used to be meaningful.
Post Reply