feedback on the latest exp modification

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5t3v3
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by 5t3v3 » 21 Dec 2008, 21:17

First of all I like the new exp modification, but It still has some small problems. To not make solo lvling to hard, how about you add a bonus for being outnumbered?

Here's the principle, since monsters do more damage in group, they are harder in group and should thus give more exp.

How to do this: if two consecutive kills are within a pre-set time frame from each other (like 1 or two seconds) the second kill has a percentual bonus of exp. After each kill a new window starts and if a third or forth consecutive kill comes, the percentage bonus adds up to the previous bonus (it will probably need a limit like no more then + 100% of base exp). If there is to much time in-between kills, the bonus falls back and you start at the normal base exp.

Another option, is that if a monster is hit by more then one player, this cuts down the bonus to a smaller percentage. so that way team play is still more effective, but solo play doesn't completely suck in comparison.
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Speedo » 21 Dec 2008, 23:47

I'm not a regular participant of the forum so I don't expect my opinion to carry much weight but I'd like to relate my experience with "team" play that tells me the recent changes haven't accomplished the stated goal.
Several times I've found myself in a room of many players and swarms of monsters. With that many players, you can forget about ever picking up a drop. And in order to insure you are beating on a monster that someone else is also whacking you have to stand right on top of them; all the players try to stand in the same place for that reason. So with all those players and monsters crowded into the same space, you can't read names and have no idea of who you are "team"-ing with. What you look for is the dashed circle-- when it disappears it's time to hit A - Cntl again. Of course you also watch to see what exp floats out of your head.
The exp points are great but no real team play. Maybe that's not the way it should be done but that's how it is done.
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Dyna » 22 Dec 2008, 05:01

*sighs*

Sadly TMW has turned into one big fancy chat room for most of us. Last time I checked we were still in testing (ie we the players were testing the game to see what worked and what didn't...not the DEV team) This isn't working. Why demoralize us and turn it into a player vs DEV battle...what you had before was working and working fine. If you want to add the team bonus...even better but take some advice from people who are playing the game.

Just because there can be 100+ players doesn't mean they are playing...most of us are sitting in the towns and chatting...if you wanted a little computer version of a 'dress up your character and chat' that's fine...but I miss the old version where we actually, you know...played the game.

Don't get me wrong I love this game and I love the community and if that means I stay at lvl 70 because what's the use of going higher...that's ok by me...just is frustrating to no end :|

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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by kr0n05931 » 22 Dec 2008, 05:21

Look, obviously something is wrong if several players have extended the topic into 5 pages.

Here is what I have concluded from this topic:
  • Solo leveling is too hard/difficult
  • Exp gaps
    My monsters for the ice area could fit in this gap quite well: Frigid Log and Snowy Log
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Len » 22 Dec 2008, 07:12

*speaking for myself* disregard my developer status

Personally, I think It should take at least a week to get to lvl 30... lvling is ungodly easy in this game
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Rotonen » 22 Dec 2008, 13:55

IMO levelling should indeed go somewhat smooth at first, but then pick out the enthusiast grinders from the rest of the bunch.
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by niels.ellegaard » 22 Dec 2008, 15:49

Here is an idea for an improvement :

If two players stand next to each other fighting one snake each, then the two players should both get team a play bonus. After all they are part of the same battle. Right now they don't get bonus because each snake is killed by a single player. Perhaps any monster should give team play-bonus if it had seen another monster has being killed in its vicinity during it's life time during the last 30 seconds of it's life.

With the present rules you can also get team play bonus when killing snakes, but in order to get this bonus, I thnk that you have to run in cirkles to make sure that each monster is hit by at least two players before it dies. So tmw becomes more of a game of running in circles less of a game of killing snakes. I think that is less fun.

PS: This idea was stolen from a comment that a player made during some game, but I forgot that players name

PPS: If you raised the XP-value of the strong monsters and lowered the XP-value of the weak monsters, then I think that the team play bonus would become somewhat redundant, because players would automatically gain from teaming up to kill the strong monsters.... but that is another discussion :)
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by niels.ellegaard » 22 Dec 2008, 16:07

5t3v3 wrote:How to do this: if two consecutive kills are within a pre-set time frame from each other (like 1 or two seconds) the second kill has a percentual bonus of exp. After each kill a new window starts and if a third or forth consecutive kill comes, the percentage bonus adds up to the previous bonus (it will probably need a limit like no more then + 100% of base exp). If there is to much time in-between kills, the bonus falls back and you start at the normal base exp.
This sounds like a nice idea, but it will also raise the XP-gain from very killing small monsters. So I am afraid that low level players will be encouraged to kill monsters that are too small to be challenging. This will make the game less fun for low-level players.
5t3v3 wrote:Another option, is that if a monster is hit by more then one player, this cuts down the bonus to a smaller percentage. so that way team play is still more effective, but solo play doesn't completely suck in comparison.
I like this idea.

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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by octalot » 22 Dec 2008, 17:53

How about decreasing the amount of XP that high-level characters get for low-level monsters?

Currently a high-level character killing a mouboo will get as much XP as killing 40 or so maggots, and the maggots will be much quicker.
For a simple implementation, how about
new_xp = min(1, old_xp - character_level)
Which for a high-level makes a mouboo about 350, and a maggot 1.

Obviously I'd like the XP required for levelling to be rejigged to fit with the new numbers.
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Jaxad0127 » 22 Dec 2008, 18:12

octalot wrote:How about decreasing the amount of XP that high-level characters get for low-level monsters?

Currently a high-level character killing a mouboo will get as much XP as killing 40 or so maggots, and the maggots will be much quicker.
For a simple implementation, how about
new_xp = min(1, old_xp - character_level)
Which for a high-level makes a mouboo about 350, and a maggot 1.

Obviously I'd like the XP required for levelling to be rejigged to fit with the new numbers.
A better idea would be to rework the monster levels and not give any (or maybe 1) exp if the player is too far above.
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by 5t3v3 » 22 Dec 2008, 20:22

niels.ellegaard wrote:
5t3v3 wrote:How to do this: if two consecutive kills are within a pre-set time frame from each other (like 1 or two seconds) the second kill has a percentual bonus of exp. After each kill a new window starts and if a third or forth consecutive kill comes, the percentage bonus adds up to the previous bonus (it will probably need a limit like no more then + 100% of base exp). If there is to much time in-between kills, the bonus falls back and you start at the normal base exp.
This sounds like a nice idea, but it will also raise the XP-gain from very killing small monsters. So I am afraid that low level players will be encouraged to kill monsters that are too small to be challenging. This will make the game less fun for low-level players.
I thought about this to, but in the end I think that even if you get + 100% on very weak monsters, it will still be slower then going for the bad-ass monsters. maggots give 5exp, +100% => 10 exp
scorpions 25exp, +100% is still only 50exp. perhaps you could even set the bonuslimit at different percentages for different monsters. Also, these lower monsters don't usually come in packs, so it would be significantly harder to maintain the kill-in-time-combo since your time window will expire all the time.
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by niels.ellegaard » 22 Dec 2008, 21:24

5t3v3 wrote:I thought about this to, but in the end I think that even if you get + 100% on very weak monsters, it will still be slower then going for the bad-ass monsters. maggots give 5exp, +100% => 10 exp scorpions 25exp, +100% is still only 50exp. perhaps you could even set the bonuslimit at different percentages for different monsters. Also, these lower monsters don't usually come in packs, so it would be significantly harder to maintain the kill-in-time-combo since your time window will expire all the time.
Playing the devils advocate:
If the consequtive kill bonus was implemented, then I could try to hit 5-10 spiky mushrooms with one hit each. Once they were all following me, I could turn around and kill them all in one go while maintaining the kill bonus. They can only hit me for 1 hp each, so I would never really be in danger. I think that this would feel a little weird to do, because essentially I would be running in circles to exploit the XP-system.

But if I used it close to Dimond's cove then there is a fair chance that the trick would give me more XP per hour than killing challenging monsters such as snakes or santa slimes, and that would make the game less fun for me.
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Quiche_on_a_leash » 23 Dec 2008, 15:03

I got bored and decided to actually do something, not that I expect what I've done to be a of great help or interest.

Anyway, rather than just plucking exp values from the air, lets have an equation. (See attached for what I've been playing around with.)
Don't moan that the exp values are "high" again, the only reason I can see for them being so low right now is so when you fight like pack dogs you could get a moderately decent amount of exp.

The group bonus needs to be reduced considerably.
If people want to fight in groups then they will, they don't need to be bribed, but you need to give them places where they'd want to fight in groups to begin with.

Also, the mutation variance is way to much - seriously, but I haven't looked at that yet.


Blah.
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by octalot » 23 Dec 2008, 16:29

QOAL wrote:INT(SQRT((E2)*(D2*0.5)+((J2*(0.25+(N2/50)))*(K2*(0.25+(S2/50))))*N2*L2))
That's a lot of numbers but it's not very readable, even if you have the spreadsheet open to look up the column headings.
If you set out the aim of this (what kind of gameplay you wish to promote), and described your formula in text giving your reasons for the various weightings, it could be a good addition to the discussion.
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Re: feedback on the latest exp modification

Post by Quiche_on_a_leash » 23 Dec 2008, 16:42

INT(SQRT((HP)*(LV*0.5)+((ATK1*(0.25+(STR/50)))*(ATK2*(0.25+(LUK/50))))*STR*DEF))
I did basically just fiddle around with stuff for a while, so don't think that I'll swear by that equation.
And yes it is a lot of numbers, because lots of stuff should factor into the equation.

As for what type of game play, well how about game play where people actually want to go out and train by killing a monster because it's rewarding to them, heck they might even have fun at the same time if you're lucky.

Right now all people are doing is sitting around, quests (if they have any to do) and a small amount of training when they get bored.


And that's me done on this subject, I'm going back to client hacking which is slightly more fun.

Please note I'm not in a good mood today, so I this could come over wrong.
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