English speaking

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Re: English speaking

Post by Elrrohir » 20 Dec 2008, 04:35

Arilious wrote: I as such, the point made of "why do you play an English-made game if you can not speak it" is very valid
I would really like to hear how it is valid. there is no warning that says: this is a english speakers game only"
Arilious wrote:however notice that even though other-language speaking happens in the game, the number of people who do it in small groups and not in open, large player-base areas are not punished or bothered with. It is not difficult to follow this rule. If you find that you absolutely cannot use whispering in large areas, or take your companions who speak your language to a safe, non massive-player spot, then it is simply laziness, and therefore has no excuse.
It is not laziness... it is what it is. I understand both languages and is not a problem for me. I understand your point about other languages become "spam" in tha middle of a conversation but also when a bunch of different payers get together somewhere they don't usually speak in order nor the conversation is shared by everyone. so in this case, even when the language is the same, some other conversation is "spamming" yours and so on... it doesn't make any difference the language this conversation is in, it mess with the continuity of yours.

However, i do accept that my behavior was too violent, but krono, you had it coming. and still try to be funny using bad spanish.

i will not speak english in the towns but i can't say the same for any other location in the game. If thats enough for all you, i think that could be easy rule to follow.

and have a merry xmass, guys.

BTW, feel free to speak finnish if you like. or german... i think that as long as we, at least, try to communicate with each other its ok :)
Last edited by Elrrohir on 20 Dec 2008, 04:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Arilious » 20 Dec 2008, 04:46

Platyna wrote: Well, time to set some rules:
1. Do not abuse other players (it means insults, swearing etc. directed to a particular person/s)
2. No bots (and aby botting I mean ANY AFK activity in game).
3. No spamming/flooding (including trade spam).
4. No begging.
5. Speak English on public chat.
6. RFC 1855.

These rules may change in the future, so it is worth to take a look on this thread from time to time.

Regards.
Those are the official rules.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Elrrohir » 20 Dec 2008, 04:49

Arilious wrote:
Platyna wrote: Well, time to set some rules:
1. Do not abuse other players (it means insults, swearing etc. directed to a particular person/s)
2. No bots (and aby botting I mean ANY AFK activity in game).
3. No spamming/flooding (including trade spam).
4. No begging.
5. Speak English on public chat.
6. RFC 1855.

These rules may change in the future, so it is worth to take a look on this thread from time to time.

Regards.
Those are the official rules.
and im not thinking about changing that, im only asking for a lil bit of flexibility and patience.
those who don't speak english have it ;)
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Re: English speaking

Post by Arilious » 20 Dec 2008, 04:50

There already is leniency, it's called "find a non-public space to speak your language in."
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Re: English speaking

Post by Crush » 20 Dec 2008, 04:56

"It is an official rule so it is a correct rule" is circular reasoning. The rules are not set in stone. The server administrators can always change a rule when they think that it is counter-productiv. The rule announcement quoted above even says so.

So when someone thinks that a rule is stupid he or she is free to present arguments and try to change the admins mind.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Elrrohir » 20 Dec 2008, 05:03

Crush wrote:"It is an official rule so it should be an official rule in the future" is circular reasoning. The server administrators can always change a rule when they think that it is counter-productive. The rule announcement quoted above even says so.
agree, i have to say.

can someone tell me which kind of illegal stuff can a couple of players actually plan in the middle of a public area? and even better, can someone tell me how it is a problem that someone speak different language in a public area after saying that sometimes there is so many people having different conversations and spamming each other conversations? is it that you can understand those anyway? does this has something to do with feel comfortable? or safe?

i'll call it for the day... it's a bit late around here :)
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Re: English speaking

Post by Crush » 20 Dec 2008, 05:34

Elrrohir wrote:can someone tell me which kind of illegal stuff can a couple of players actually plan in the middle of a public area?
Because there is no way for a GM to intervent without understanding the language there are in fact a lot of illegal acts which could be performed in a public area with or against people who speak the same language, including but not limited to:

*Spreading false rumors about people
*Insulting people
*Exchange of racist or otherwise hateful propaganda (illegal in many countries)
*Sexual explicit conversations in proximity of minors

All of this can of course also be done in private, but allowing such exchanges to take place in public without a way to control them can become a serious problem. Allowing large mono-lingual communities to grow inside the game without any kind of moderation would be a big irresponsibility.

Of course I don't want to accuse any ethical group of wanting to practice above behavior, but creating any areas free of regulation is just a large risk that people who want to might be attracted.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Uffi puffi » 20 Dec 2008, 06:12

Hi to all. :wink:
This is my first post. First I would like to compliment the managers of the game and thank them for their excellent work, including moderators. The same goes for players, always kind and friendly.
I apologize for my English, I'm italian .. some words are beyond my knowledge, but I will try. Forgive if some sentences were to include male, is not in my nature to offend anyone.
I read all the posts and I must say that maybe because working for years on the Internet .. I understand both sides: managers and players.
Managing a game or a multilingual community is not always easy. We are also subject to which laws, including those to be the first to prevent illegal acts and in doing so everyone chooses the most appropriate way to do it. Who can afford many servers divides the players into several servers, who sometimes can not even for personal choice, usually relies on volunteer moderators.
A server costs money. Many servers require changing some programmers initial choices that will enable them to manage a larger community.
In any case, no one is obliged to do anything. I think that everyone knowing about it. Democracy is a thing, this is a game, even if it has its part to the fact that an approach can sometimes unite more people, more cultures, different languages. Focus the choices that a manager makes when communities decide on the balance security/gameplay or server overload/popularity .....etc
Many games on the Internet are crowded by thousands of users. This is a game little by comparison. But .. But there is one.
This is a really good game. It is really. :wink: If that were already open to dialogue in several languages on the same server but I believe that their managers would open the way to popularity in a short time. In a second step could start servers in different languages more easily, because some players are actually owners of servers, or have a chance to host in their own language. However .. even the great Chinese wall is made of small bricks and each track is made of small steps. It starts this way, small choices. They are small choices which then will the differences in the future of a game, so a company.
For this reason I appeal to operators of the game. You wonder if you can try to manage for a while, different languages, to see if this would lead many more players or not. Perhaps relying on volunteer moderators in different languages?
I know that maybe does not care that the game becomes known throughout the world or that reaches a wide popularity, but why not try?
Personally, I can already give a help in this area. I believe in very open source and I believe in sharing knowledge, even for a game. :)
I have contacted other players in different languages and I proposed them to translate the wiki. I have also offered to host in my server, if necessary. For this, however .. I would first get the consent of managers or of wiki game.
This is my opinion, a person who perhaps understands very words of the operators of the game in many ways, which has moderated in the past thousands of users at the same time, but that was and is also moderate and player.

Now I speak from player .. I do not have the "whispers" in the game. This is because this PC use this to work and I can not update it now and when I did not have many options that many other people. I can only speak in public. This is because in Ubuntu is no more support for version 8.04. It is not a problem for me. But in doing so I have to speak in public .. and in English.
Ok .. I will do. I know that like me, there are many others who have earlier versions of the game and if I am forced to speak in their own language only in "whispers" can not do that.

Thank you for space on the forum and I renew my greetings to all. :D

Uffi puffi! :D
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Re: English speaking

Post by yasha » 20 Dec 2008, 16:13

kr0n05931 wrote:Life is not fair. The Mana World is not a democracy. If you have a problem go make a Spanish server, forum, or fork. English has 1,800,000,000 speakers, I think we can manage. :wink:

Deal with it and get on with your lives, because it only gets worse from here. The developers plan on making quests require a VERY high mastery of the English language that a translator won't work for. :twisted:

Life is not fair, everything is not a democracy, you can't always have your say.
First i would like to say what are developers, GMs and moderators without "normal" players? Something like teacher without students. People who are crating MMO surely aren't doing it for only themselfs. And there is 1,300,000,000 chinese people, but they don't have even 10% of things and privileges english speakers have.

Second, if quest are to hard for us to understand, we can ask somebody who is willing to help. This game has lot of great people who help all the time.

Third, I know life is not fair, but we can make it less unfair. If you find blind man who wants to go over unmarked street, he needs your help you'll say "life is unfair" and just leave? Thats very nice of you.


And i would say that i hate people who can't say they did a mistake. Is saying "sorry, i made a mistake" much harder than keep going in opposite direction of truth. To fight all people only to prove you were right?

I don't want to insult or offend you, i am just saying what i think.

EDIT: i'm glad that somebody who made all TMW by himself can say what TMW is or what it isn't. It's nearly like i say that USA is not democracy, only USA is less democracy than TMW.
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Re: Ubuntu 8.04 client

Post by octalot » 20 Dec 2008, 16:54

Uffi puffi wrote:Now I speak from player .. I do not have the "whispers" in the game. This is because this PC use this to work and I can not update it now and when I did not have many options that many other people. I can only speak in public. This is because in Ubuntu is no more support for version 8.04. It is not a problem for me. But in doing so I have to speak in public .. and in English.
Unrelated to the language discussion, but the TMW client in Ubuntu 8.04 will break soon. Not because of whispering, but because the version in 8.10 will allow more complex map designs.

Edit: Actually, this has already happened in Hurnscald (the extra feature is used for the chimney of Jack's house). It appears that the client still works well enough for no-one to complain.
Last edited by octalot on 27 Dec 2008, 01:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Habari » 22 Dec 2008, 20:57

TMW isn't an English game:
1.it was started by an Italian guy , with the help of a Swedish guy
2.it is hosted by a polish lady in a server in Poland
3.Most developers are from Germany and central Europe
4.most players aren't from English speaking countries
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3306
according to my survey nearly 60% of players don't come from english speaking countries

a 40% minority is imposing us their language , in my experience english natives often think they are born with some kind of privilege.

rule #5 is a Nazi rule , there is a huge difference between an official language and a unique language , there isn't a single democracy in the world that jails people for speaking a language that differs from the official language

maybe TMW should have more than one official language (like Switzerland )

I was born from an english mother and a spanish father and i speak both languages , i also speak french fairly way and i learn swahili on my free time , i would like to be free to learn and speak any language in any part of the world , including the internet ( one of the last truly free places we have in the earth), i live in a very turistic country and when english tourists aproach me in english i kindly answer them back in english , i dont tell them to learn spanish even if it is the official language of the country in wich they are.
And i will not create my own server in ANY language , because we dont need racial segregation on the internet ( we have had enough on the physical world at past times)
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Re: English speaking

Post by kr0n05931 » 22 Dec 2008, 21:15

English was decided by the developers, the very same that came from Italy, Sweden, Germany, and the Netherlands, to be the language of TMW due to its universality

Living in an English speaking country has nothing to do with it. I can learn Japanese in the U.S., but surely that doesn't mean that it's the official language of a country.

I see the ulterior motives of the people wanting Spanish and Portuguese to be official, they want to be the GMs to moderate it.

Also, since when is choosing an official language racial discrimination? I don't have to be Mexican to speak Spanish, and I don't have to be Japanese to speak well erm... Japanese. Your conspiracy theories are all lacking and if we all more than one language, how in the hell will we understand each other? Online translators don't work worth a feces.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Jaxad0127 » 22 Dec 2008, 21:31

Habari wrote:TMW isn't an English game:
1.it was started by an Italian guy , with the help of a Swedish guy
2.it is hosted by a polish lady in a server in Poland
3.Most developers are from Germany and central Europe
4.most players aren't from English speaking countries
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3306
according to my survey nearly 60% of players don't come from english speaking countries

a 40% minority is imposing us their language , in my experience english natives often think they are born with some kind of privilege.
English is a plurality. No other language group is larger. It's also telling that the first posts were in English, not Italian.

I will not be making any more comments, except to clarify and correct wrong statements. This was the former.
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Re: English speaking

Post by octalot » 22 Dec 2008, 22:07

Habari wrote:4.most players aren't from English speaking countries
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3306
according to my survey nearly 60% of players don't come from english speaking countries
A minor disagreement with your analysis - the UK is included in "north Europe", which has 40% of the votes.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Jaxad0127 » 22 Dec 2008, 22:13

octalot wrote:
Habari wrote:4.most players aren't from English speaking countries
http://forums.themanaworld.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3306
according to my survey nearly 60% of players don't come from english speaking countries
A minor disagreement with your analysis - the UK is included in "north Europe", which has 40% of the votes.
Good catch. Don't forget Ireland.
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