English speaking

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Elrrohir
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Re: English speaking

Post by Elrrohir » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:14 am

Ok. After all this fuzz we are back to the begging. My point here is: to punish a player for speaking any other language but english is called overreact. It is simple to understand the reasons why u want it this way, although it's hard to imagine someone selling porn in the mana world or spreading rumors about madonna or something. My question is: it's possible for all of u to understand that there are 8 - 9 - 10 years old children playing this game? are all of you comfortable with the idea of punishing those players cause they don't speak english in public areas? I think that you can keep the rule, but that it'll be a good idea to make it "softer" by, for example, saying that if a player says something in other language than english in a public area, he can try 3 times max to get help from other user that speaks his language and they have to continue the conversation either out in the wild or using the "whispers".
This last part leads me to the other point:
In any case, since the whisper method allows any player to talk to any other player in private, I feel tempted to say that there it goes the fear for possible illegal activities. So u have to either audit that to ensure that no one is planning to put a bomb somewhere or admit that the reasons you've give are insufficient.
Another reason given is that in a public area, when having a conversation, people talking in another languge than english would it be "spamming". Now, and this is an unquestionable fact, is pretty easy to get lost in a public area when having a conversation anyway. I still can't see how this point is valid. I really can't. No one has answered to this yet.
I still think that the rule sucks, but i understand that is the only way for all of u GM's and moderators to be able to do your jobs. But i really think you all need to get a lil bit more flexible and understand the rest of us too.
BTW, I know players that don't speak english at all and they are all high level player, which demonstrate that we don't need to know a single word of english as long as we can get help for other players that do.

Not even one of us, the non-english-speakers, want the responsibility of a GM. I'm not interested in other thing than playing the game.

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Re: English speaking

Post by kr0n05931 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:37 am

I say we just ban everyone breaking rule # 5 to stop the complaining. We have already stated our reasons and y'all keep replying the same thing over again.
Lazy bum.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Elrrohir » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:25 am

kr0n05931 wrote:I say we just ban everyone breaking rule # 5 to stop the complaining. We have already stated our reasons and y'all keep replying the same thing over again.
You're clearly not able to respond to any of my statements in any way. Thats a relief. Anyway, i would like to hear someone else who actually had something to say about this. And I'm saying something real not the childish statement that you just make, kr0n05931
I'll keep posting here till someone tell us that it will be flexibility about this issue. I don't want to abandon my character and I'm sure many think like me. Someone here stated that is discriminatory to ban someone cause of this rule (and I agree till certain point with that) and accept the terms of the GM/Moderators thesis about the impossibility of doing their jobs if other languages are allowed. But i still think u have to be more flexible.

still waiting for some evidence of intelligent life forms...
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Len
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Re: English speaking

Post by Len » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:06 am

Elrrohir wrote: and accept the terms of the GM/Moderators thesis about the impossibility of doing their jobs if other languages are allowed. But i still think u have to be more flexible.
still waiting for some evidence of intelligent life forms...
Last time I checked they where pretty flexible on the issue
and If liability issues aren't enough reason for you to Accept it, you can always go with life sucks and then you die (always works for me) :lol:
My question is: it's possible for all of u to understand that there are 8 - 9 - 10 years old children playing this game? are all of you comfortable with the idea of punishing those players cause they don't speak english in public areas?
8 9 10 year old kids playing this game is the reason for the rule, its simply a sad fact of life that some sick people pray on them. And TMW doesn't have the means to police other languages
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Re: English speaking

Post by yasha » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:29 am

kr0n05931 wrote:I say we just ban everyone breaking rule # 5 to stop the complaining. We have already stated our reasons and y'all keep replying the same thing over again.
I vote to ban kr0n05931 because you are acting like you are only one on this game.

Sometimes you say you need players to find bugs and give their opinion of this game - that helps improving game, but now you say you should ban over 50% of players. I will speak on English like i do now because its rule, but when we put this rule down i'll speak croatian. And i know this rule will be broken.

I would like to hear how other developers and GMs think, not only kr0n05931 and Len.
@Len if your life sux don't ruin others life.
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Re: English speaking

Post by octalot » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:00 am

Habari wrote:I was born from an english mother and a spanish father and i speak both languages , i also speak french fairly way and i learn swahili on my free time , i would like to be free to learn and speak any language in any part of the world , including the internet ( one of the last truly free places we have in the earth), i live in a very turistic country and when english tourists aproach me in english i kindly answer them back in english , i dont tell them to learn spanish even if it is the official language of the country in wich they are.
That does make tourism much easier, and I thank you for doing it. But which language do you use with German or Finnish tourists?
Habari wrote:And i will not create my own server in ANY language , because we dont need racial segregation on the internet ( we have had enough on the physical world at past times)
That's a good reason. Would you create the all-languages-allowed server instead?
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Re: English speaking

Post by ville-v » Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:30 pm

Len wrote:
My question is: it's possible for all of u to understand that there are 8 - 9 - 10 years old children playing this game? are all of you comfortable with the idea of punishing those players cause they don't speak english in public areas?
8 9 10 year old kids playing this game is the reason for the rule, its simply a sad fact of life that some sick people pray on them. And TMW doesn't have the means to police other languages
Do you have children? If so, who does raise them, you or the national internet censorship agency?

If I had children, and my child was playing a game online, I would not leave her alone. I would watch her playing. If I felt bad language would damage her innocence, I would turn on the swear filter, if there was one in the game. In case someone would target her and harrass her in our native language, I would tell her that she can log off if she feels offended. If I did not, I would fail as a parent.

Protecting children is good thing, but it is not a valid reason to spread censorship. Limitations should always be set by the parents, since majority of players are not little children.
octalot wrote:
Habari wrote:I was born from an english mother and a spanish father and i speak both languages , i also speak french fairly way and i learn swahili on my free time , i would like to be free to learn and speak any language in any part of the world , including the internet ( one of the last truly free places we have in the earth), i live in a very turistic country and when english tourists aproach me in english i kindly answer them back in english , i dont tell them to learn spanish even if it is the official language of the country in wich they are.
That does make tourism much easier, and I thank you for doing it. But which language do you use with German or Finnish tourists?
If I have to speak with person who does not understand my language, I will use English. But I am not racist either, so I do let foreing people speak their language with each other, even if they are not whispering.
Crush wrote:I would like to see large non-english TMW communities creating their own localized servers. Everything you need can be found online.
I do not understand why people of different nationalities should be segretated around different servers. You are not even mentioning language as a reason like all the other posters do (for example the person who wants to drive away every person who is unable to report bugs).

If foreing language does annoy you or some other developer, why would you not fix chatting system of the game? If players were able to unite guilds and guilds would have their own chat channels, people of other nationalities could speak their language there, if the rule was removed. If players would be able to chat on different channels, and would be able to create their own channel by joining on it (kinda like in IRC, but you would not be forced to swap between windows), and if the rule was edited (since if anybody can join channel, it is still public), people could speak their own languages there.

You translate rules. Should you be banned for breaking innocence of people who did not know non-English languages exist in the Internet too?

Playing game in a foreing language is a good way to learn it, since all the people out there are judging you by how good English you are speaking (or writing). If you were allowed to have community of people who speak other language or have different skin colour, it would be easier for new players to get into the game, since you could get information in your own language. If you want more players, that is. There is at least one person in this topic who claims he only wants programmers who speak godlike English and find every bug of the game to play it. However, I would see it different way: If you do not drive players away, you get more players. And some of those players will stay, will speak perfect English and will develop the game onwards.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Jaxad0127 » Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:29 pm

ville-v wrote:If foreing language does annoy you or some other developer, why would you not fix chatting system of the game? If players were able to unite guilds and guilds would have their own chat channels, people of other nationalities could speak their language there, if the rule was removed. If players would be able to chat on different channels, and would be able to create their own channel by joining on it (kinda like in IRC, but you would not be forced to swap between windows), and if the rule was edited (since if anybody can join channel, it is still public), people could speak their own languages there.
TMWServ already supports this. Each guild and party have their own chat channel and you can register addition "public" channels. Adding this to eAthena would be troublesome, and might even break clients that don't support it.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Len » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:03 pm

@Len if your life sux don't ruin others life.
:lol: sarcasm is lost on you it seems, and if not playing this game ruins your life...you didn't have one to begin with
If I had children, and my child was playing a game online, I would not leave her alone. I would watch her playing. If I felt bad language would damage her innocence, I would turn on the swear filter, if there was one in the game. In case someone would target her and harrass her in our native language, I would tell her that she can log off if she feels offended. If I did not, I would fail as a parent.
Many people don't look after their kids and when their kids get hurt they blame/sue others for their neglect.(and often win)
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Re: English speaking

Post by ville-v » Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:27 pm

Len wrote:Many people don't look after their kids and when their kids get hurt they blame/sue others for their neglect.(and often win)
Is the essence of this debate the fact you fear someone's kid is assaulted by a foreing pedophile and tmw sued because of that? :shock:

Personally I do not see how kids belong this conversation at all.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Habari » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:40 pm

Anyway , you cant prove that someone is a kid in the internet , because they dont ask you for id when you start playing , you can be who ever you want to be , so its stupid to protect children if in the first place , you cant tell how many children play , and who are they.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Len » Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:46 pm

Its unlikely that someone will try and spread underage porn or try to meet with someone who is underage(or any other illegal activity) on TMW. But the odds are not zero and things like this have happened in other games.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Rotonen » Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:41 pm

So to be legally trackable we should log all chat and automatically burn to CD every 700MB?

If our playerhood is mainly monsters, I cannot tell. I would let people talk.
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Re: English speaking

Post by Len » Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:05 am

I should really avoid responding to topics I could care less about :|
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Re: English speaking

Post by yasha » Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:12 am

Len wrote:Its unlikely that someone will try and spread underage porn or try to meet with someone who is underage(or any other illegal activity) on TMW. But the odds are not zero and things like this have happened in other games.
They surely won't do this on public chat, they'll whisper. I know this can happen, but it can happen on all games. Since we can whisper what we want, with public chat censuring we won't get anything.
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